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  1. #1

    Internet speeds...

    I, admittedly, have not been keeping up with internet speed advancements over the years and only recently realized that I'm still on the same 6 Mbps DSL speed that I signed up for years ago. At the time 6 was considered fast, I think. I hadn't realized that there are now speeds of up to 50Mbps and even 100Mbps available (cable). I think it's time to look into a speed upgrade (although, I haven't really had any trouble streaming video, streaming to my iPad, or iTunes remote control problems at the 6Mb speed).

    I'm just curious to know what type of internet speeds other members are working with? What's a good internet speed price/performance ratio for the basic computer audiophile home user? Thanks!

  2. #2
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    My cable TV provider here in Denmark delivers true 111 down/11 up.

    Mostly, it's noticeable for my 19-year-old online gamer. Downloads that take him 15 minutes take the others 2-3 hours. I only appreciate the difference when downloading programs or hdtracks hirez albums.


    Wireless, on various iPad 's, netbooks and laptops, it's usually 30 down/12 up.
    Al J.
    Power Inspired AG1500 AC regenerator (digital components) - PS Audio Power Plant Premier AC regenerator(analog components) - Sonore Signature music server + PS upgrade - SotM tx-Usb soundcard with external Monolithic Sound P3b PS - Lightspeed dual conduit USB cable - Wyred for Sound DAC2DSDSE + Femto clock + MPad MPD client on iPad 2 - Wyred for Sound STEP-SE Stage 2 Upgrade preamp - MK Sound 150P active monitors - 2 MK Sound MX350 subs - Shakti Stones - Stillpoints ERS EMI/RFI sheets - Entreq Minimus + Silver Minimus grounding boxes - Symposium Rollerblocks - Symposium Ultra platform

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Al Jones View Post
    My cable TV provider here in Denmark delivers true 111 down/11 up.
    And you probably get that 111 speed at a relatively reasonable price compared to what subscribers in the U.S. would be charged? I bet there are very few here with that level of speed. Surfing the net must be a complete joy for you.

    I recall reading, a while back, that European countries are way ahead of the U.S. in terms of broadband infrastructure, not sure if that's still the case.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by rennq View Post
    I recall reading, a while back, that European countries are way ahead of the U.S. in terms of broadband infrastructure, not sure if that's still the case.
    Unfortunately probably even more so.

  5. #5
    Mastiff Level Member Paul.Raulerson's Avatar
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    The "sweet spot" here is 30mbs service for $68/month plus taxes. Since it requires a Docsis-3 modem, that means it will go quite a bit faster if unused bandwidth is available. 107mbs service is available, but given our local provider, paying for it is problematical. ($125/month) The top speeds we see from 107mbs service are higher yes, but Netflix, iTunes, and such are apparently throttled somewhere, because downloads from them are slower. Much slower.

    I have not taken the time to track down what is slowing those, and other services down, but it is not the local loop. I begin to think it is regional infrastructure delays - central Texas is just overloaded.

    -Paul
    1. Main Music: AIFF Library -> Mac Mini i5 (Late 2012) -> MacOS Mavericks / Windows 7 Ultimate -> JRMC 19/A+/Amarra/iTunes -> Kimber USB -> Wavelength Proton -> [NAD T747?] -> Nodost Flatline MKII Speaker cables -> Large Advents
    2. Bedroom -> Macbook Pro -> MacOS Mavericks -> JRMC19 -> Wavelength USB2S/PDIF -> AVA T8 -> NAD BEE326 -> Nordost Flatline MKII -> [working on this... Changes often]
    3. Office -> Experimental System, changes when I want it to. Includes SAN, NAS, Routers, Switches, etc. Maggie's, Genesis, other goodies up here.



  6. #6

  7. #7
    Supercilious twit orgel's Avatar
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    I'm sure that map is accurate, but it's perhaps a little misleading in terms of what bandwidth a given user can expect to get in the US. Rural areas are typically grossly underserved, but in a metropolitan area that the large Internet providers believe is worthy of infrastructure investment, one can get pretty good bandwidth, albeit at a higher cost than in many other developed countries.

    For example, at home I have the first-level Verizon FiOS service upgrade, which gets me nominal 50 Mbps down / 25 Mbps up service. That's currently advertised at $75/mo. … but the pricing quickly gets confusing because of various bundling options. Real bandwidth with this service is pretty good — I just tested with speedtest.net and got 42.6 down / 28.6 up (over my home WiFi network).

    In many metropolitan areas, both large and smallish cable providers offer residential service that may not be quite as beefy as FiOS (say, 25-30 Mbps down) but can be cheaper, depending on the market, the competitive environment, etc.

    --David

  8. #8
    Newbie Objectionist wgscott's Avatar
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    I am really getting my money's worth:



    Not.

    My combined internet and phone bill is about $85/mo. I have a phone phobia and hardly ever use it.
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Señor, señor, let's disconnect these cables
    Overturn these tables
    This place don't make sense to me no more.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Paul.Raulerson View Post
    The top speeds we see from 107mbs service are higher yes, but Netflix, iTunes, and such are apparently throttled somewhere, because downloads from them are slower. Much slower.

    I have not taken the time to track down what is slowing those, and other services down, but it is not the local loop. I begin to think it is regional infrastructure delays - central Texas is just overloaded.

    -Paul
    This is one benefit of DSL versus cable (coax). Apparently, with cable, caps exist on the core network and access network and may explain the slow speeds you experience with Netflix, etc. On the other hand, DSL speed capabilities are quite limited compared to cable. The question is: is it better to have un-throttled DSL at 6Mbps (max here), or 30Mbps throttled cable? ATT also has U-Verse coax (18Mbps max). If going the coax route, it might be best to go with the cable company rather than the phone company version? I'm not sure.

    Quote from wikipedia link;

    "In many situations, each user of a network is expected to use high speed transmission for only a short time, for example to download a megabyte web page in less than a second. When use is continuous, as it might be in the case of file sharing, Internet radio or streaming video, a few users who use the connection at high rates for hours at a time may seriously impair the service of others. The concept is more relevant in cable internet where both the core network and the access network are shared, than in DSL where the core network is shared but the access network is not. It is most relevant in wireless internet, particularly satellite internet, where both the core network and the access network are shared and total network bandwidth is relatively narrow."

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bandwidth_cap

    A good article Julf. Hopefully the U.S. will catch up with some of those more broadband advanced countries.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by wgscott View Post
    I am really getting my money's worth:



    Not.

    My combined internet and phone bill is about $85/mo. I have a phone phobia and hardly ever use it.
    I love the area in that speed test that states: slower than 69% of US. Not a good feeling for us 5-6MBps internet users'.

    $85/mo seems really high for 6Mbps DSL these days. You might want to give the phone company a call this week.

    I pay $19.95 for the 6Mbps service (have my own modem/router) and, I think, around $10 for basic phone and opted for no long distance carrier service. I don't use the phone at all (only cell phone). No contract and DSL price is good for 1 year.

    The terms are not accurate in this link. It says for new customers, etc., but not true.

    AT&T - Terms and Conditions - Residential - CA

  11. #11
    Mastiff Level Member Paul.Raulerson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rennq View Post
    This is one benefit of DSL versus cable (coax). Apparently, with cable, caps exist on the core network and access network and may explain the slow speeds you experience with Netflix, etc. On the other hand, DSL speed capabilities are quite limited compared to cable. The question is: is it better to have un-throttled DSL at 6Mbps (max here), or 30Mbps throttled cable? ATT also has U-Verse coax (18Mbps max). If going the coax route, it might be best to go with the cable company rather than the phone company version? I'm not sure.

    Quote from wikipedia link;

    "In many situations, each user of a network is expected to use high speed transmission for only a short time, for example to download a megabyte web page in less than a second. When use is continuous, as it might be in the case of file sharing, Internet radio or streaming video, a few users who use the connection at high rates for hours at a time may seriously impair the service of others. The concept is more relevant in cable internet where both the core network and the access network are shared, than in DSL where the core network is shared but the access network is not. It is most relevant in wireless internet, particularly satellite internet, where both the core network and the access network are shared and total network bandwidth is relatively narrow."

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bandwidth_cap

    A good article Julf. Hopefully the U.S. will catch up with some of those more broadband advanced countries.
    Yes, and no. Cable networks are shared, but once you get past the DSLAM for DSL, so are DSL networks. The "last mile" is different, but once the traffic hits main routers for any network, it's pretty much all the same.

    Going a little bit deeper, both DSL and broadband networks are affected by the age of the infrastructure they traverse. Since the U.S. deployed Internet service much earlier than many other countries, older gear and infrastructure can (and does) bottleneck transmissions in some cases. A 20 year old broadband plant between you and your destination is often the cause of a terrific slowdown.

    I predict the U.S. will leapfrog over Europe and Asia into higher capacity networks with the next major upgrade cycle, but that may take some time. The cellular data networks are where the lion's share of the attention and funding is going right now. It's all inter-related too, and I am not convinced anyone really has the whole picture and can adequately evaluate it.

    -Paul
    1. Main Music: AIFF Library -> Mac Mini i5 (Late 2012) -> MacOS Mavericks / Windows 7 Ultimate -> JRMC 19/A+/Amarra/iTunes -> Kimber USB -> Wavelength Proton -> [NAD T747?] -> Nodost Flatline MKII Speaker cables -> Large Advents
    2. Bedroom -> Macbook Pro -> MacOS Mavericks -> JRMC19 -> Wavelength USB2S/PDIF -> AVA T8 -> NAD BEE326 -> Nordost Flatline MKII -> [working on this... Changes often]
    3. Office -> Experimental System, changes when I want it to. Includes SAN, NAS, Routers, Switches, etc. Maggie's, Genesis, other goodies up here.



  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Paul.Raulerson View Post
    Yes, and no. Cable networks are shared, but once you get past the DSLAM for DSL, so are DSL networks. The "last mile" is different, but once the traffic hits main routers for any network, it's pretty much all the same.

    Going a little bit deeper, both DSL and broadband networks are affected by the age of the infrastructure they traverse. Since the U.S. deployed Internet service much earlier than many other countries, older gear and infrastructure can (and does) bottleneck transmissions in some cases. A 20 year old broadband plant between you and your destination is often the cause of a terrific slowdown.

    I predict the U.S. will leapfrog over Europe and Asia into higher capacity networks with the next major upgrade cycle, but that may take some time. The cellular data networks are where the lion's share of the attention and funding is going right now. It's all inter-related too, and I am not convinced anyone really has the whole picture and can adequately evaluate it.

    -Paul
    I was under the impression that because DSL does not share the access network (only the core network) that DSL subscribers avoid the peak hour slow-downs. Not always so… So there really is no benefit to going DSL over cable? Perhaps that's why they have lowered their prices so much. DSL providers don't want to lose customers to cable.

  13. #13
    Mastiff Level Member Paul.Raulerson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rennq View Post
    I was under the impression that because DSL does not share the access network (only the core network) that DSL subscribers avoid the peak hour slow-downs. Not always so… So there really is no benefit to going DSL over cable? Perhaps that's why they have lowered their prices so much. DSL providers don't want to lose customers to cable.
    Not really much at all, I am afraid. If you have 10 houses on your block, each with a ADSL account, then there will be 10 lines to the local DSLAM, but all 10 lines will share from the DLSAM on the corner out. Note, if your ADSL has speeds of 20mbs or better, then it is a different story, but that is rare around here.

    Cable does share directly between you and your neighbor, but there is a lot more to share. Also, with DOCSIS modems, the modems are operating a much higher speeds, and will reach out and grab available bandwidth, up to 3X the throttled speed, if it is available. This happens on an "instantaneous" basis, meaning the bandwidth available will vary from second to second, but on the average you usually get really good speed.

    The downside with cable really lies with your cable company. Some cable companies are awful in a technical sense. ADSL is most often offered by phone companies, and almost every phone company has excellent technical resources. It's worse than picking out speaker cables, except you have far less choice in most cases.

    -Paul
    1. Main Music: AIFF Library -> Mac Mini i5 (Late 2012) -> MacOS Mavericks / Windows 7 Ultimate -> JRMC 19/A+/Amarra/iTunes -> Kimber USB -> Wavelength Proton -> [NAD T747?] -> Nodost Flatline MKII Speaker cables -> Large Advents
    2. Bedroom -> Macbook Pro -> MacOS Mavericks -> JRMC19 -> Wavelength USB2S/PDIF -> AVA T8 -> NAD BEE326 -> Nordost Flatline MKII -> [working on this... Changes often]
    3. Office -> Experimental System, changes when I want it to. Includes SAN, NAS, Routers, Switches, etc. Maggie's, Genesis, other goodies up here.



  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Paul.Raulerson View Post
    Note, if your ADSL has speeds of 20mbs or better, then it is a different story, but that is rare around here.
    -Paul
    Rare indeed. ATT DSL is a pathetic 6Mbps max around here (densely populated area, SoCal).

    The downside with cable really lies with your cable company.
    That's exactly what I was thinking. The main issue it that they like to raise prices on established customers. I got rid of their service completely (TV) and now looks like I have to go back (if I want faster internet).

    Thanks Paul!

  15. #15
    Nuts about animation! Chipper's Avatar
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    Faster than half of the U.S. with this result, and this isn't even super fast compared to college networks, or what they get over in South Korea. $55 per month for Road Runner...I have no tv service with them, nor a phone bill, so this is pretty much the flat rate. Time Warner basically has a monopoly on the area.
    Snap, crackle, and pop is for breakfast cereal, not for music. Go digital!

    The thrifty audio critter who does not buy into audiophile nonsense.

  16. #16
    Supercilious twit orgel's Avatar
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    Couldn't resist ...

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    (I grew up in Syracuse. Nottingham High.)

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    AURALiC Aries Deluxe coming soon to replace > Mac Mini 10.9 (SSD, 8GB RAM & LPSU) > Synology 1813+ (DSM 4.3, 4TB Seagate NAS Drives, 4GB RAM & Zero Surge & APC XS BX1000G/backup to Synology DX513) > JRiver MC 19.0.122-Mac > AURALiC Vega > Fully Balanced Autoformer Bent Audio TAP-X > ATSAH (NCore 1200) > GedLee Abbeys run full range. Behringer DCX > (2) Rythmik Servo Subs and (2) GedLee Bandpass powered by ATSAH (NCore 1200) blended into mains > DH Labs Cables & (2) PI Audio UberBuss. GIK Room Treatments all measured and setup using Calibrated mic and HOLMImpulse.

  18. #18
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    Time Warner (Roadrunner) Cable
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  19. #19
    Site Founder The Computer Audiophile's Avatar
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    Comcast

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  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Computer Audiophile View Post
    Comcast

    Now I have Internet envy
    John Walker
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  21. #21
    Supercilious twit orgel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jhwalker View Post
    Now I have Internet envy
    Looks like Chris has the bragging rights. (He can probably deduct his Internet service.)

    For my neighborhood, FiOS offers three tiers above mine, but they start to get pricey:

    75 down / 35 up: $90/mo.
    150 down / 65 up: $100/mo.
    300 down / 65 up: $210/mo.

    Come to think of it, what I have now seems to work for us pretty well, so maybe I don't need to be envious. What a concept!

    --David
    Mac mini > Audiophilleo2 with PurePower > Mytek > W4S STP-SE > W4S ST-500 > Amphion Argon3 (Details)

  22. #22
    Senior Member REShaman's Avatar
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    Verizon Fios. Similar results if I choose Optimum Online in NYC. Good enough,
    Richard
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  23. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by jhwalker View Post
    Now I have Internet envy
    Me too!

    Some pretty impressive speeds here. I really am in the broadband dark ages at 6Mb/s (max DSL here). Not looking forward to dealing with the Time Warner monopoly, but DSL will always be limited compared to coax, so I figure I'll have to switch some time.

  24. #24
    Senior Member REShaman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rennq View Post
    Me too!

    Some pretty impressive speeds here. I really am in the broadband dark ages at 6Mb/s (max DSL here). Not looking forward to dealing with the Time Warner monopoly, but DSL will always be limited compared to coax, so I figure I'll have to switch some time.
    This morning's test result. The value is in Verizon's mostly uniform service. Yesterday I used a server nearby/across the River (Hudson) in NJ. Today, a server in NYC with almost the same result. It's this consistency that I find attractive. But Verizon charges dearly for their services. Still download times are consistently in the seconds for most. I have no idea what the experience of having Chris download times. A blink of the eye and violá?
    Best,
    Richard
    Software: OS X Mavericks, iTunes, Amarra Symphony & iRC, Audirvana Plus+, BitPerfect & DSD Master, Decibel, Fidelia, Pure Music; Computer: Mac Mini (2011, 2.7 GHz Intel Core 2 Duo i7, 16GB, int. SSD 256GB); Video: 27" Cinema Thunderbolt Display; Storage: Promise Pegasus 12TB R6 Raid 5 & 8TB R4 Raid 5; Digital: Oppo BDP-95; Wyred 4 Sound DAC-2 DSDse & Femto Grade Clock Mod; Atlona AT-HD577; Preamplification: Wyred 4 Sound STP-SE Stage 2; Amplification: W4S SX1000 (x2); Bryston 10B Sub LR 50Hz, 24dB/Octave/2-way active crossover; Speakers: KEF Reference 107; JL Audio F112 x 2 set to mono on Sound Anchor stands; KEF X300A on Sound Anchor stands; Cables: Light Harmonic LightSpeed USB (standard); Synergistic Research: Active SE USB, Tesla LE Acoustic Reference & Precision Reference XLR ICs, Tesla LE Acoustic Reference speaker cables, Tesla LE Subwoofer 2 cables, Tranqility Base, QLS9 & T2 power cable; Black Cat Veloce 75 ohm; DH Lab Silver HDMI 1.4; W4S P1 Ultra Power cables; DH Labs Power Plus AC Cable; Shunyata Venom 3. Pioneer BDR-208.

  25. #25
    Re:Member Alan Brown's Avatar
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    Typical slow upload speed here in UK.
    QNAP > DIY Rebuilt MACMini 3.1 > Audirvana+ > M2Tech Young DAC > LightSpeed LDR Attenuator > Tellurium Q Atom Amplifier > Royd Revelation RR3 (Tellurium Q Black).


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