Thread: Soundkeeper Recordings - Americas

Like very much. I sent an email in this AM to ask what format I should order today. I thought you CA input here would help many folks like me that are not computer savy.

If I have Peachtree Nova/Pre with DAC built in, what is the best format to purchase. My Saber Dac upsamples always and I believe 24/192. Do I purchase the AIFF so I can use on itunes/JRiver? I want to hear the best of source.

Thanks in advance!

I spoke to them and 24/96 is tops. They mentioned a couple things like addin a driver for my Windows PC. They also stated a Mac Mini would have a native support for 24/192. I am not sure what this all means but I for now I am limited to 24/96. Will I still be able to play through Itunes on an Ipod? The reason I ask is my mobile HIFI systems are using Ipod Docks for source.

Originally Posted by bdiament

Hi HIFI,



I believe my assistant responded to your message but since I'm writing, the best source would be the highest rate version the Peachtree Nova can read. I just checked their Web site and it appears 24/96 is what it is spec'd for. If I'm correct about that (you might want to check with Peachtree or perhaps a Nova owner here on CA can chime in), our 24/96 .aif files-on-disc version would be my recommendation for the best version that unit can play.

If Peachtree says the Nova can read 24/192 sources (note, this would be natively, not the rate to which it might upsample), I'd recommend the 24/192 .aif files-on-disc version, which is the rate at which the album was recorded.

Please let me know if there's anything else you need.

Best regards,
Barry
Soundkeeper Recordings
Barry Diament Audio

My Ipod environment is my outside audio systems. There is no critical listening but I am serious about it. I have a couple outdoor systems with great power and forced front stage while I use rear speakers for fill. I like a great HIFI outdoors with no bounderies. I will pick up the 24/96 AIF file from Soundkeeper.

Originally Posted by bdiament

Hi HIFI,

I don't know how much "serious" or "critical" listening you do from the iPod. If you also use a direct feed from the computer, my suggestion is go 24/96 and create copies to downconvert for the iPod. If this sounds like a hassle, save the money and go with the CD (or CD-R).

Not sure I'm being much help here. It really depends on how you prefer to listen.

One more thought: perhaps I'm mistaken and your iPod (which model?) can indeed play 24/96 .aif files. Perhaps another member here knows. Anyone?
If it can, all you need do is drag the files into iTunes and point your iPod to those files next time you load music to it.

Best regards,
Barry
Soundkeeper Recordings
Barry Diament Audio

Nice to see that Soundkeeper has a new recording. Next time I have some money I'll have to pick it up.
Barry, I fully understand your choice to not deal with the compromises inherent in re-trying live (in front of an audience) recording, but I do really appreciate live recordings, mostly because with jazz, and rock musicians who improvise, there are often moments of magic which are less likely to occur in a more controlled environment, whether it be a studio or an empty hall, theatre, church, etc. Of course, being there, and getting it down, can be challenging, but it does sometimes happen.
I suspect that in the right space, it might be possible to get a good live recording with a baffled two mike array-certainly there are some good examples of symphony orchestras recorded this way... I suspect the possibility of getting good sound would rely heavily on having the "perfect" space...

Originally Posted by bdiament

Hi barrows,



Great to hear from you!

While I can certainly understand the appeal of a live recording, I've done enough of them to know they aren't my cup of sonic tea - particularly with the simple mic'ing I use. The audience just becomes too prominent and at least in my experience, invariably becomes a distraction from the music I want to hear.

I understand too about the interaction with the "crowd" and it is one of the things I enjoy about hearing live music. Still, the interaction between the players when recorded the way I do, should not be underestimated. If an audience were present during those moments, the listener at home would have the added "cue" of the audience's response but the musical interaction between players remains, even without that cue.

I won't say "never" as I can't predict how I'll feel on another day. It is just that I've done many recordings in front of audiences and so far, every single one has been something I've decided not to release for precisely the reason that I felt it distracted from the experience of listening to the band unhindered. (I should add that I feel this way about even multiple, close-mic'd recordings and tend to avoid purchasing the live ones by my favorite artists for exactly this reason. I find this even more true upon repeated listening.)

Best regards,
Barry
Soundkeeper Recordings
Barry Diament Audio

So interesting to hear the different points of view here - much as I enjoy pristine recordings of artists in a studio or an empty venue, I find it's the live recordings I come back to again and again. Can't get enough of that audience-fueled "edge"

And for another view point . . .

I love live music. I enjoy a concert. I prefer a "nonstop direct to disc" recording overall. For me, in a two channel audio system, when the crowd claps or gets involved in production I am once again reminded I am listening to two speakers. Two well recorded productions come to mind . . . Nnenna Freelon "Live" is a great recording and I find myself immersed in the soul of her voice. Then the croud starts praising and I realize . . . this is loud. It was not loud before. Jeff Beck "Live at Ronnie Scotts" is recorded in even a smaller area. This one I am fully engaged in his guitar that sings. Then the crowd roars. I can do without the crowds.

I was anticipating the arrival and it came today. Americas is a very nice production and very dynamic production as well. This type of recording is perfect. I love live music. I love live concerts. I do not like a recorded live concert with clapping. This is a great value IMO.

Tell me I did this correct . . . I copied files to hard drive in my music folder after creating a Sub-Folder for Paul. Once I had files copied I highlighted and dragged files into JRiver and then into Itunes. The individual track names are the only thing that populated in both players. Do I need to add album and artist manually. BTW . . . I picked up the 24/96 aif format.
Thanks again!

Originally Posted by bdiament

Hi barrows,



Great to hear from you!

While I can certainly understand the appeal of a live recording, I've done enough of them to know they aren't my cup of sonic tea - particularly with the simple mic'ing I use. The audience just becomes too prominent and at least in my experience, invariably becomes a distraction from the music I want to hear.

I understand too about the interaction with the "crowd" and it is one of the things I enjoy about hearing live music. Still, the interaction between the players when recorded the way I do, should not be underestimated. If an audience were present during those moments, the listener at home would have the added "cue" of the audience's response but the musical interaction between players remains, even without that cue.

I won't say "never" as I can't predict how I'll feel on another day. It is just that I've done many recordings in front of audiences and so far, every single one has been something I've decided not to release for precisely the reason that I felt it distracted from the experience of listening to the band unhindered. (I should add that I feel this way about even multiple, close-mic'd recordings and tend to avoid purchasing the live ones by my favorite artists for exactly this reason. I find this even more true upon repeated listening.)

Best regards,
Barry
Soundkeeper Recordings
Barry Diament Audio

I concur, Barry, as I have previously expressed. I think you get to the same point I do except that I don't have production responsibilities, rather, spectator preferences. While I can understand Barrow's POV re live recordings and chemistry with the audience, I am reminded of two examples that represent a slightly different perspective, without making anyone wrong or less valid. The first is Miles Davis. The second is Miles Davis. He was performing at The Five Spot with his Quintetat the time. Or was a sextet, because I believe J J Johnson was playing with him. Several times during his "solos" would turn his back to us and several times he walked off the stage and disappeared until he was "on" again. I realize this was an extreme contre-example. The second is my all-time favorite, Kind Of Blue which was not recorded live . It is alive and the magic that takes place during those sessions requires very little comment from me. What both examples have in common? The crowd at The Five Spot was both mystified, myst-off and mesmerized by the gorgeous playing of Miles that night, facing us or with his back to us. Gone from the stage was a bit extreme. Considering what is considered as exquisite improvisations and sessions, I think the equation has far more to do with the synergy between the musicians than a live crowd. And often the ill-timing of applause and enthusiastic audience sounds and even conversations does not inspire me whether listening in person or near field from my speakers.
Still, I can appreciate how others may evaluate a performance and attribute other factors than the artistry of the musicians. BTW, I have witnessed the reverse, when audiences have a different effect on the performance. Considering how many great recordings have been annotated in liner notes with inside up close and personal observations of what was going on, I am guessing the inspiration is in the moment and highly personal including Monk giving another great musician some "notes" about what did not happen...
Record away, there' always music to die for,
Richard

Correction re Miles Davis at The Five Spot. That was not the venue. I am straining to remember where on the lower Eastside of New York in a fairly large room and I believe he was with a Septet. This was some 40 years ago. It may not matter to anyone but me, and just for the record (pun intended).
Richard

Originally Posted by bdiament

Hi HIFI,



Why both JRiver and iTunes?
I just drag the files into iTunes (or use "File/Add to Library...").

Chris has (had?) a great video somewhere on this site about adding files like this to an iTunes library but I have not been able to find it. Perhaps if Chris sees this, he can provide a link to the video. Or perhaps someone else knows the video I'm referring to.

Best regards,
Barry
Soundkeeper Recordings
Barry Diament Audio

I was using Jriver for flac file playpack. Some day soon I will convert my flac files to aif. At that point I do not need Jriver unless it proves to be a better sounding player. Many CA'rs suggest it for better sound. I cant here past my room so I don't hear the difference.

OK . . . I simply dragged files but it did not load artist name and album name . . just track names. It is easy to add but I was thinking I did something wrong. With redbook cd's it always adds art and all information.

Shaman: Totally agreed as to live performance variances, just as a live performance may give rise to musical magic, it can just as likely (and in my experience more often so) result in musical mediocrity. It was not my intent to suggest that live performance always results in a magical experience, far from it, and as you suggest, often the audience is to blame (both for the good performances and the bad).
These days I am constantly annoyed by the lack of respect which many audiences give to moment of a live performance, this was certainly different in the days of my youth (late 70s through 80s) when audiences generally approached performances with respect, an open mind, and often a state of awe.

Originally Posted by barrows

Shaman: Totally agreed as to live performance variances, just as a live performance may give rise to musical magic, it can just as likely (and in my experience more often so) result in musical mediocrity. It was not my intent to suggest that live performance always results in a magical experience, far from it, and as you suggest, often the audience is to blame (both for the good performances and the bad).
These days I am constantly annoyed by the lack of respect which many audiences give to moment of a live performance, this was certainly different in the days of my youth (late 70s through 80s) when audiences generally approached performances with respect, an open mind, and often a state of awe.

I did not mean to infer that your valid perspective re the chemistry at live performances between performing musicians and audiences is a given lacking in discrimination, nuance and over-generalizes a predictable outcome.

Actually you and I quickly converge at the crux of what is possible at live performances from audiences vis a vis the musicians and for those of us within the audience.

This may not be what either of us meant, but one night I took my girl friend to the Copa in NYC to see Judy Garland. There's no curtain at the Copa. And the audience waited and waited. Eventually, Judy Garland entered from stage right, and it was evident from her demeanor that she had had too much to drink. She got through most of one song and left the stage. The audience was dead silent. Within minutes, Frank Sinatra, Sammy Davis Junior, Dean Martin and oddly, Peter Lawford were suddenly on stage performing. The energy from the audience was electric. After a few songs, Frank Sinatra bid us adieu, Dean Martin stayed for a few more, then he and Peter Lawford left, and Sammy Davis Jr sang, danced, did impersonation for at least an hour and a half. The audience and those stars were in a synchronicity that was indescribable. Those performers and the audience were playing off one another and not one star missed a beat. It was obviously extemporaneous and yet it came off perfectly. Clearly the audience and the performers were driving each other with enthusiasm and the talent was so deep you could fall into the evening and get lost.

Experiences like that just do not happen with musicians for the most part. Or some audiences might even get nasty because of a performers demeanor. Perhaps that's the magic we're referring to in one instance or a mesmerizing performance by musicians who capture the audience with their artistry and that exchange though more subtle is palpable. That took place for me at Town Hall in NYC with Josh Redman, Brad Mehldau, Brian Blade, Christian McBride (I may have left one other out) when they performed all or most of what became Mood Swing CD. It was magical and that happened in a theater that holds a several hundred if not a thousand.

I do not know what got me started. I am with you.
Richard

Originally Posted by barrows

Shaman: These days I am constantly annoyed by the lack of respect which many audiences give to moment of a live performance, this was certainly different in the days of my youth (late 70s through 80s) when audiences generally approached performances with respect, an open mind, and often a state of awe.

Whoo boy- I do remember live plays and formal symphonic performances having somewhat more respectful audiences in the 70s, but boy- the Eagles, Fleetwood Mac, and even the country singer concerts were anything but! Safe though, nobody by got hurt or trampled.

On the other hand, playing piano for a friend of mine who sang at "classy" dinner clubs, well, the drunks back then seemed to be a little more out of control to me. Kept a little baseball bat that my dad made for me when I was a kid close to hand and had to use it once or twice. (grin) I still keep that little bat close in fact.

Originally Posted by Paul.Raulerson

Whoo boy- I do remember live plays and formal symphonic performances having somewhat more respectful audiences in the 70s, but boy- the Eagles, Fleetwood Mac, and even the country singer concerts were anything but! Safe though, nobody by got hurt or trampled.

On the other hand, playing piano for a friend of mine who sang at "classy" dinner clubs, well, the drunks back then seemed to be a little more out of control to me. Kept a little baseball bat that my dad made for me when I was a kid close to hand and had to use it once or twice. (grin) I still keep that little bat close in fact.

Sorry, Barry, we, a few of us, got to reminiscing and most recently temporarily hijacked the thread about Americas. It started with an invitation to you to produce recordings with audience participation. My back track was to get us, well, back on track.

Just curious, as a producer, engineer, label owner, what can you tell us about how musicians regard live recordings or live gigs vs controlled conditions in the studio. Any insights for us insight starved music enthusiast. If this is not something you care to indulge, as I have said before, feel free to pass on my curiosity which is more than idle.I am also curious about how a singer vs a musician responds to studio vs live audiences. I as a spectator, listener often dislike the ambiance/room characteristics of a concert especially the sound environment of the big halls or stadium preferring to hear the voice and instruments in a more intimate setting where the character and nuance is apparent. Any interest in commenting about any of this? Or not.

In any case, Americas with Paul Beaudry & Pathways have a standing invitation to visit my listening room any time I click play. So glad for that.There's plenty of magic to go around. Music is medicine in my world. And the miracles music produces is incontestable.

Now back to the music,
Richard

Hey Shaman, Barry, it's all good! As long as we do not detract too much from your latest release discussion.
Interesting observations all around, and there is room for all different kinds of music, recording techniques, and listening preferences, my tastes are pretty wide open: I appreciate studio "created" music, like the studio albums of Peter Gabriel, for instance, as much as an unamplified string quartet playing in a local church with pretty decent sonics.
Barry: interesting to note your pov of the current approach to recording in the studio, and the effect it may have on musical, shall we say, "inspiration". It is also interesting that when (the aforementioned) Peter Gabriel built his Realworld studios, he built the main recording space as a large open room, allowing the musicians to have some interaction, where the engineer(s) are also in the same room and not behind glass. In this case the engineer(s) can be part of the interaction, and Peter Gabriel has noted that this arrangement makes the musicians more comfortable than the standard studio recording approach.
Of course the above example is still a world apart from what Barry does now with recording of what is a live performance with two mikes and the balances created by arrangement of mikes and musicians.

Originally Posted by bdiament

Thank you Dave for taking the time to post about your experience.

This is exactly what I want for Soundkeeper - not just the music and sound but the relationships with our artists, the relationships with our customers and the customer experience - I want them all to be something better than what artists and the folks who purchase their records have had before.

Thank you again. Very much appreciated.

Best regards,
Barry
Soundkeeper Recordings
Barry Diament Audio

Well, my HD 600s finally arrived .. an I am listening to Equinox (having just finished listing to Americas) - though not with my main dac ( portable - NuForce uDac II async upgrade) -- and the detail is amazing .. even more apparent than before. So will be very interesting to listen to these albums on my main system.

The sound doesn't sound flat / 2 dimensional - you can perceive the depth - to the point where one starts to "locate" the instruments in the virtual soundstage -- if that makes sense. i.e. the trumpet in Equinox definitely sounds to me to be at 11 o'clock forward position ... anyway ... it sounds dam good and not a bad way to pass friday afternoon at work :-)

Originally Posted by bdiament

Hi Richard,



One of the first thoughts that came to mind was the shock I experienced some time in the '80s when I learned that most "live" albums aren't. Oh, there's an audience - perhaps even the one from the event itself. But the musical parts are often "enhanced" when not completely replaced. (Such is the "convenience" of close, multiple mic'ing.) Not saying this is true of all live albums, just that it is true of a lot more than I wish was the case.

That said, having recorded plenty of players in studios and having used the more typical techniques with which to do so, was part of the reason I started Soundkeeper. The atmosphere in the studio, with most folks under headphones (or with one ear out, which to my mind is essentially the same thing), separated by short walls or tall plexiglas walls or separate recording "booths", with the engineer providing the balance (as opposed to the musicians themselves), doesn't make it surprising that the "feel" is completely different.

Sometimes magic happens but it is a different sort of magic than what occurs regularly if the musicians are in a room together, with no barriers, unhampered by headphones or someone's "mix" and playing for each other. This is particularly true when the room is supportive of the music. That is another reason for Soundkeeper: I prefer to listen to music in places designed for the purpose. This is very different from any studio I've worked in, visited or seen photos of, where the purpose is to be able to separate the instruments for later manipulation during the "mix" and where the "acoustic" is applied later, electronically. This is different from most modern concerts too, where public address systems (optimized for speech intelligibility at a quarter mile) are used to play a "mix" created by a "soundman".

With the "pressure" of a direct recording and no opportunity for overdubs and punch-ins to add, re-do or correct parts, the musicians tend to rise to the occasion and as with the best concerts I've seen (those rare ones where the PA doesn't interfere), there is an "electricity" between the players. While lesser players might get more "careful", I find the better players are pushed to take more chances - it is an opportunity they don't often encounter: hearing themselves, with them alone in control of the sounds, them alone the source(s) of the sounds and without the confining aspects of being in a studio. The acoustics of the space play a big part in this too as they will impact how the players interact with that space.

Did I answer your question? Or did I go off on a tangent of my own? ;-}

Best regards,
Barry
Soundkeeper Recordings
Barry Diament Audio

Barry:

Did you answer my question?

I knocked on your door with a several-part question that if we retired to Winslow, Arizona, given time and inclination, we could fill that divot in the desert with material that I personally find curious and wonderfully intriguing

To borrow a line from the film, Finding Forrester, not exactly a soup question.

Actually, I felt invited in. Thank you. Mighty neighborly. What you did find time to share about you in multi-varied roles as an artist, producer, engineer, label-owner, (fill in the blank) taken as a Whole - more than the sum of the parts - are insights into what you value living the action of those roles. I, as a spectator and enthusiast find this brief glimpse into your world fascinating. I generally spend significant time and investment in the pursuit of excellence, as a listener, therapist and coach. Not for analysis. Rather for entering the Portal of the pathway you and the musicians provide. The choice then becomes do we enter the space created? And where are we once we enter. With Gershwin, at age 8, the first time I heard An American In Paris, I was there. And it's curious to appreciate what you do when producing that shapes the way we hear and feel and see what others are playing that for their participation also creates the experience we perceive.

I will keep in mind when listening to your productions for cues gleaned from this glimpse. I greatly enjoy insights gleaned music documentaries from artists such as Steely Dan's Two Against Nature, Sting's Bring On The Night, The Band's/Scorsese's The Last Waltz and a hundred more. You get the idea. In this way we are invited into the intimacy of the production.

I did not experience your reply as a tangent of your own. Taking some of your time to include us into your process and perspectives, how you make soup, is greatly appreciated. I will listen for any cues that may be discernible. Or not.

Richard