Another Gem Ruined By Rick Rubin and Vlado Meller (RATM)

**The Computer Audiophile** · 01-23-2013, 02:22 PM

Hi Guys - I went to the local record store this morning and noticed Rage Against The Machine's self titled debut album had been remastered and released late in 2012. This is an absolute gem of an album so I picked up the edition with 2 CDs and 1 DVD. I got in the car, opened the liner notes to see who remastered the album. To my surprise and horror it's Vlado Meller from Masterdisk. In addition to this his cohort in destroying the sound quality of a generation Rick Rubin is the Executive Producer on the remaster. I wanted the album to sound good and I really gave it a chance despite the people involved in this version. However, it's terrible. They've taken an album mastered by Bob Ludwig that sounded pretty good and turned it into a disaster with heavy compression. Here are the gory details.

Original release mastered by Bob Ludwig

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Analyzed folder: /Users/chris/Desktop/Rage Against The Machine
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
DR Peak RMS Filename
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

DR8 -0.13 dB -10.38 dB 01-Bombtrack.wav
DR9 -0.10 dB -10.18 dB 02-Killing In The Name.wav
DR9 -0.12 dB -11.27 dB 03-Take The Power Back.wav
DR9 -0.16 dB -13.18 dB 04-Settle For Nothing.wav
DR8 -0.08 dB -9.84 dB 05-Bullet In The Head.wav
DR10 -0.14 dB -11.69 dB 06-Know Your Enemy.wav
DR8 -0.11 dB -10.53 dB 07-Wake Up.wav
DR10 -0.11 dB -12.76 dB 08-Fistful Of Steel.wav
DR10 -0.16 dB -11.54 dB 09-Township Rebellion.wav
DR9 -0.17 dB -11.50 dB 10-Freedom.wav
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Number of files: 10
Official DR value: DR9

============================================

2012 Remaster by Vlado Meller

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Analyzed folder: /Users/chris/Desktop/Rage Against the Machine XX (Remastered) (Disc 01)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
DR Peak RMS Filename
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

DR4 over -5.87 dB 01 - Bombtrack.wav
DR6 over -7.58 dB 02 - Killing in the Name.wav
DR6 over -7.58 dB 03 - Take the Power Back.wav
DR5 over -8.70 dB 04 - Settle for Nothing.wav
DR4 over -6.28 dB 05 - Bullet in the Head.wav
DR6 over -7.39 dB 06 - Know Your Enemy.wav
DR5 over -6.27 dB 07 - Wake Up.wav
DR7 over -9.85 dB 08 - Fistful of Steel.wav
DR6 over -7.58 dB 09 - Township Rebellion.wav
DR6 over -8.04 dB 10 - Freedom.wav
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Number of files: 10
Official DR value: DR6

================================================== =

**AudioDoctor** · 01-23-2013, 04:21 PM

Yikes, that looks bad.

**Jud** · 01-23-2013, 05:54 PM

Chris, I think you've got your mad on righteously, but regarding at least one wrong suspect. Have a look in DR Database at Johnny Cash's American Recordings series in date order: DR Database

They were all produced by Rubin. Anything strike you about this? In 1994 with the original recording in the series, the DR numbers are way up there for American popular music. By 6-8 years later, though, and through the 2000s, it's time for compression.

I've got two Jakob Dylan solo albums, one produced by Rubin, the other by a famous producer lauded as a fighter against the loudness wars, T-Bone Burnett. To my ears, Rubin's production has superior sound quality.

The story I see is a producer who works a lot because he's ready to do the bidding of the labels if they want it loud, but if the label doesn't get in his way and the artist wants sound quality, Rubin can also deliver on that. So is he more flexible than we'd like in being willing to compromise sound quality to please execs at the labels? Sure, I'll go for that. But to say he's the guy who's responsible for ruining the remaster? My thinking is, based on history and even more recent projects where Rubin's done a really fine job, the ultimate responsibility for kicking in the compression probably lies where it does for so many current recordings and remasters, squarely with the labels who want it coming across those millions of iPod earphones plenty "good and loud."

**wdw** · 01-23-2013, 07:05 PM

Sorry to hear this...I never had listened to Rage Against the Machine when this album was first released but was just blow away with "Maggies Farm" when i heard it recently and bought this one track from iTunes (a true rock and roll classic) and had made a note to buy this album in the near future...bummer...

**The Computer Audiophile** · 01-24-2013, 12:55 AM

Originally Posted by Jud

Chris, I think you've got your mad on righteously, but regarding at least one wrong suspect. Have a look in DR Database at Johnny Cash's American Recordings series in date order: DR Database

They were all produced by Rubin. Anything strike you about this? In 1994 with the original recording in the series, the DR numbers are way up there for American popular music. By 6-8 years later, though, and through the 2000s, it's time for compression.

I've got two Jakob Dylan solo albums, one produced by Rubin, the other by a famous producer lauded as a fighter against the loudness wars, T-Bone Burnett. To my ears, Rubin's production has superior sound quality.

The story I see is a producer who works a lot because he's ready to do the bidding of the labels if they want it loud, but if the label doesn't get in his way and the artist wants sound quality, Rubin can also deliver on that. So is he more flexible than we'd like in being willing to compromise sound quality to please execs at the labels? Sure, I'll go for that. But to say he's the guy who's responsible for ruining the remaster? My thinking is, based on history and even more recent projects where Rubin's done a really fine job, the ultimate responsibility for kicking in the compression probably lies where it does for so many current recordings and remasters, squarely with the labels who want it coming across those millions of iPod earphones plenty "good and loud."

I hear ya Jud. Maybe it's the fact that this dynamic duo, pardon the pun, is involved in several albums containing my favorite music that gets me most.

**jp11801** · 01-24-2013, 05:06 AM

the original cd sounded fantastic maybe not "audiophile demo" quality but one of the better rock albums for sound in that genre at that time. Listen to any Biohazard album for comparison. I wouldn't touch this remaster with a ten foot pole.

**firedog** · 01-24-2013, 09:40 AM

Wow, the original CD had a DR of 9 - already probably pretty loud - and they lowered it to 6!?

Bob Ludwig is a great producer with great ears (and an audiophile); I'm not sure that you could beat his master. Who knows, maybe they asked him to do the remaster and he didn't want to do the heavy VC?

**integriscdp** · 01-24-2013, 09:58 AM

Originally Posted by Jud

I've got two Jakob Dylan solo albums, one produced by Rubin, the other by a famous producer lauded as a fighter against the loudness wars, T-Bone Burnett. To my ears, Rubin's production has superior sound quality.

While I generally like the 'sound' of much of T-Bone Burnett's production work, I'm not so sure it is a result of it being completely free from the effects of the Loudness Wars. I think at times he uses some compression as part of his 'sound'. Take, for example, Raising Sand by Robert Plant and Alison Krauss. For the most part, it's a very nice sounding recording, but it's far from spacious. Similarly, Gregg Allman's Low Country Blues has the same set of sonic traits as Raising Sand. And Diana Krall's Glad Rag Doll isn't all that different, either. Each of these recordings have an 'organic fullness and warmth' about them, but neither are blessed with audiophile spaciousness and clarity.

That said, none of the recordings I've mentioned are dynamically squashed like the main topic of this thread, but I'm simply saying that a producer like T-Bone Burnett is not necessarily an avoid-compression-at-all-costs kinda guy...

Cheers,

Trevor

**KDinsmore** · 01-24-2013, 10:02 AM

Wow. A 4 on the DR!

**Jud** · 01-24-2013, 11:01 AM

Originally Posted by integriscdp

While I generally like the 'sound' of much of T-Bone Burnett's production work, I'm not so sure it is a result of it being completely free from the effects of the Loudness Wars. I think at times he uses some compression as part of his 'sound'. Take, for example, Raising Sand by Robert Plant and Alison Krauss. For the most part, it's a very nice sounding recording, but it's far from spacious. Similarly, Gregg Allman's Low Country Blues has the same set of sonic traits as Raising Sand. And Diana Krall's Glad Rag Doll isn't all that different, either. Each of these recordings have an 'organic fullness and warmth' about them, but neither are blessed with audiophile spaciousness and clarity.

That said, none of the recordings I've mentioned are dynamically squashed like the main topic of this thread, but I'm simply saying that a producer like T-Bone Burnett is not necessarily an avoid-compression-at-all-costs kinda guy...

Cheers,

Trevor

I've noticed the "house sound" as well, and have actually written about it in other threads on the forum. In fact I said T-Bone's recording of Ryan Bingham's "Junky Star" album sounded like he had Bingham singing in a plywood box. (He may in fact have, or the physical equivalent, I don't know.) But he's been a frequent interview guest on various radio shows I've listened to inveighing against the loudness wars, and in fact even has some sort of website about it (forgotten the name or URL, sorry). This leads me to believe that perhaps he doesn't use particular compression tools, or at least tries not to, but it doesn't mean the recordings he produces are necessarily open-sounding; clearly they're not.

**Robert Hutton** · 01-27-2013, 09:27 AM

Originally Posted by The Computer Audiophile

I hear ya Jud. Maybe it's the fact that this dynamic duo, pardon the pun, is involved in several albums containing my favorite music that gets me most.

The producer gets his orders from the label and passes that down the line to the mastering engineer.

Despite a particular forum wishing to make the mastering engineer out to be near biblical, the fact is that the mastering person is a contractor, not an artist. If he or she does not wish to do what the customer wants done, he or she joins the unemployment line. That's as simple as it gets.

Vlado and Rubin both know perfectly well how to master with or without dynamic compression. Vlado makes none of the choices himself.

To drag his name into an online critical thread is unfair. Write the label.

**The Computer Audiophile** · 01-27-2013, 11:03 AM

Hi Robert - I certainly hear what you're saying, but I don't think it's that simple. Some in the industry have immense power and are allowed to do what they think is best.

**Robert Hutton** · 01-27-2013, 11:26 AM

Originally Posted by The Computer Audiophile

Hi Robert - I certainly hear what you're saying, but I don't think it's that simple. Some in the industry have immense power and are allowed to do what they think is best.

Chris, that is indisputably true, and Rubin is certainly one of those who wields power.

But there is NO mastering engineer who wields such influence.

The labels - and Rubin runs one - view the compact disc as a commodity CPG type product. Remastering is done - particularly of titles with mass market appeal - to be played in cars, in bars, on radio, and other venues where loudness in relation to the typical listener is a selling virtue. Sometimes a label will remaster a title with broad audiophile appeal, or in the rare cases where the artist both cares enough and has the ability to over-ride the label, with a more holistic approach. And of course, compression has been around since the 1960's and is far from the universal evil it is sometimes made out to be - within reason.

The labels are remastering according to the mass market. They master to sell product. They rarely master for the sake of pure art.

We have on this board (right now, actually) these silly arguments about whether or not hi-res is distinguishable from redbook. But it is very rare on any audio board for there to be a discussion on whether or not Joe Average CD buyer could hear a difference between an original CD issue and a remaster done with the same DR. Probably they cannot, and would therefore not buy remasters, and the labels are in the business of recycling product and selling it.

**mayhem13** · 02-04-2013, 09:04 AM

Originally Posted by Robert Hutton

and the labels are in the business of recycling product and selling it.

Agreed......as far as the majors are concerned.

If memory serves me correctly, this legendary album was recorded at Sound City, a very analog environment. Was the remastering done from the original Tape?, was the Tape stored properly?...or was it allowed to degrade as so many of the classics have been.

Thanx Chris for sharing. I doubt I'd waste the money on the remaster now, but curiosity of the unreleased material may get the better of me. I've been burned by remasters this way in the past! Lol

**The Computer Audiophile** · 02-04-2013, 09:13 AM

Originally Posted by mayhem13

Agreed......as far as the majors are concerned.

If memory serves me correctly, this legendary album was recorded at Sound City, a very analog environment.

Speaking of Sound City -> Sound City Documentary

**dallasjustice** · 02-04-2013, 09:30 AM

Oh no Chris; You just don't understand. Heavy compression is an "artistic decision".

Seriously, looks like it's ready for a hi-rez release now.

Thread: Another Gem Ruined By Rick Rubin and Vlado Meller (RATM)

LinkBack

Thread Tools

Search Thread

Display

Another Gem Ruined By Rick Rubin and Vlado Meller (RATM)