Thread: Interview with Bruce Brown of Puget Sound Studios

Q&A With Bruce Brown of Puget Sound Studios | AudioStream

Worth a read. Some comments relating directly to topics often talked about here. Not all of you will be happy with what you read.

"Unfortunately, it is up to the consumer to police the industry."

I agree with a lot of what he says in this article. Then again, there are so many contradictions in it. An educated consumer will spend, but provenance of a recording won't help. A little knowledge (Audacity, yehaw!) is dangerous. Use your ears instead of your eyes. Caveat emptor.

The article author responded to a reasonable post by a user, who basically asked, what would make me buy my 4th copy of John Barleycorn when all I know about it is that it was offered at 24/96? Michael's responses to his post were almost as comical as Bruce's dancing around the 10 ton, pink elephant in the room.

I think it is rather apparent how the business works. Now how do we effectively police the industry? Perhaps a modified 'download club' as Michael suggested, with a 'requirement' that new CA members purchase one not previously reviewed hi-res download and report on it objectively and suggestively?

Originally Posted by Garf

I think it is rather apparent how the business works. Now how do we effectively police the industry? Perhaps a modified 'download club' as Michael suggested, with a 'requirement' that new CA members purchase one not previously reviewed hi-res download and report on it objectively and suggestively?

I like that idea

Bruce Brown's remarks are consistent with my own criteria for SQ quality (listen with ears not eyes) as I have repeatedly advocated. As well as other criteria directly connected to music from consumer/listener's POV. I only mention this now because ironically I prefer to acknowledge a highly regarded professional who employs (the idea of this) the same criteria that I use without any of his expertise except that I know what I hear and what I fell about what I hear. It's refreshing to read his thoughts on many of the matters that are bandied about at this Forum. Diversity isn't a problem for me. Just enjoying the convergence with many of Brown's values.
Toot, toot!
Richard

Originally Posted by firedog

Q&A With Bruce Brown of Puget Sound Studios | AudioStream

Worth a read. Some comments relating directly to topics often talked about here. Not all of you will be happy with what you read.

I tend to agree in the most part, use your ears etc., but on the other paw, Bill Scott, or Goldsdad, or Peter St. or several others can take one look at an Audacity record and spot a fake with, so far as I can tell, 100% accuracy. There is something to that. Lots of "something" to that, in fact.

There are also lots of contradictions in the interview too. One would almost gather the impression that a "spare no expense" studio is a necessary ticket to having an expert, or even a valid opinion. We have seen here how very expert opinions can be ventured, with great accuracy, by amateurs, as noted above.

Reading the comments to the article was even more instructive, as there are obvious undercurrents there. I would hazard that someone is looking for a new revenue stream there.

All of which does not in the least denigrate the good stuff that was in the article, but it sure left me with some odd, if a bit indefinite, impressions.

-Paul

Bruce's last comment is the most important, IMO. There's too much emphasis on bit depth and sample rate and not enough on recording quality.

Originally Posted by dallasjustice

Bruce's last comment is the most important, IMO. There's too much emphasis on bit depth and sample rate and not enough on recording quality.

Amen to that plus loudness levels.

Less recordings on tape. More on silicon.

Originally Posted by dallasjustice

Bruce's last comment is the most important, IMO. There's too much emphasis on bit depth and sample rate and not enough on recording quality.

Amen, dallasjustice.
Best,
Richard

Oops just read One and a half after posting. Guess I joined the congregation.
Richard (again)

Interestingly, I just read the "opinion" piece in the latest (September) issue of Hi-Fi news & Record Review, where the editor, Paul Miller ("Technician and writer on all things audio for some 30 years" and inventor of the QC Suite, "used across the audio industry". In the piece, Paul Miller writes about upsampled "hi-res" downloads, and produces graphs showing that "Clockwork Angels" by Rush (downloaded from HDTracks) contains "mixed" material, some of it upsampled from 44.1 kHz. The interesting part is that in their response, HDTracks quote Bruce stating "these are legit 24/96 files".

Originally Posted by Julf

Interestingly, I just read the "opinion" piece in the latest (September) issue of Hi-Fi news & Record Review, where the editor, Paul Miller ("Technician and writer on all things audio for some 30 years" and inventor of the QC Suite, "used across the audio industry". In the piece, Paul Miller writes about upsampled "hi-res" downloads, and produces graphs showing that "Clockwork Angels" by Rush (downloaded from HDTracks) contains "mixed" material, some of it upsampled from 44.1 kHz. The interesting part is that in their response, HDTracks quote Bruce stating "these are legit 24/96 files".

That is curious! Wonder what Mr. Brown might respond with. Consider this wrinkle slightly another matter as for my part, I was focusing on the listening part that we all have as part of our natural equipment and thus given differing audio acuity we reach different assessments.

But that does not excuse the adulteration of DLs from HDtracks and I have been crystal clear about my opinions on those matters. Especially when I have purchased the DL and am not satisfied with the listening experience. Then it no longer matters to me what Mr. brown states about other matters as Inhold hom accountable for everything he advocates.

Still one criterion does not negate the validity of another criterion. In the matter you call attention to, if the other source is correct, then Mr. Brown has been careless but with a focus on that without negating other criteria he espouses.

Make sense?

Best,
Richard

Oh boy! My iPad just will not quit turning my text into typos. Reading below my iPad has just out done itself in the typo department.
These excuses become tiring for all and for me. Sorry.
Richard

To turn auto correct off:

1. Navigate to Settings -> General -> Keyboard

2. Touch Auto-Correction -> OFF

This allows me at least to make my own typos.

Originally Posted by Paul.Raulerson

Bill Scott, or Goldsdad, or Peter St. or several others can take one look at an Audacity record and spot a fake with, so far as I can tell, 100% accuracy. There is something to that. Lots of "something" to that, in fact. ...
-Paul

I can't speak for the others, but I possess absolutely no special skills. Anyone can look at their files with Audacity or any other software tool that enables them to make a Fourier transform of the data. There are many things one could do to make a fake high res plot. The point is in these cases no one did. They are simply redbook files in larger containers, e.g.:

Originally Posted by wgscott

To turn auto correct off:

1. Navigate to Settings -> General -> Keyboard

2. Touch Auto-Correction -> OFF

This allows me at least to make my own typos.

Great snakes! Thanks Bill! I don't know how I missed that the many times I went looking for it!
-Paul

Originally Posted by REShaman

... I only mention this now because ironically I prefer to acknowledge a highly regarded professional who employs (the idea of this) the same criteria that I use without any of his expertise except that I know what I hear and what I fell about what I hear.

I think we need to be careful using the term expert and highly regarded professional. To me an expert is someone like Doug Sax or Bill Schnee. A highly regarded professional is also someone such as Steve Hoffman. All three of these guys have impeccable credits to their names and some Grammy Awards & nominations.

Doug Sax - Credits : AllMusic

Bill Schnee - Credits : AllMusic

Steve Hoffman - Credits : AllMusic



Here's a a quick look at Bruce Brown's body of work. An Internet "expert" or engineer among armchair engineers does not equal "...expert and highly regarded professional."

Bruce Brown - Credits : AllMusic


I'm not trying to start anything. I just want to put some perspective on the situation.

Originally Posted by The Computer Audiophile

I think we need to be careful using the term expert and highly regarded professional. To me an expert is someone like Doug Sax or Bill Schnee. A highly regarded professional is also someone such as Steve Hoffman. All three of these guys have impeccable credits to their names and some Grammy Awards & nominations.

Doug Sax - Credits : AllMusic

Bill Schnee - Credits : AllMusic

Steve Hoffman - Credits : AllMusic



Here's a a quick look at Bruce Brown's body of work. An Internet "expert" or engineer among armchair engineers does not equal "...expert and highly regarded professional."

Bruce Brown - Credits : AllMusic


I'm not trying to start anything. I just want to put some perspective on the situation.

Are you saying Bruce Brown is an "armchair engineer?"

Originally Posted by dallasjustice

Are you saying Bruce Brown is an "armchair engineer?"

Hi dallasjustice - Oh no. I'm saying most of us are the armchair engineers.

Originally Posted by wgscott

To turn auto correct off:

1. Navigate to Settings -> General -> Keyboard

2. Touch Auto-Correction -> OFF

This allows me at least to make my own typos.

Been contemplating doing this. Your nudge was enough to send me there. Thank you for the support, Scott.
I dun't need no stinkin' typos.
Richard

Originally Posted by The Computer Audiophile

I think we need to be careful using the term expert and highly regarded professional. To me an expert is someone like Doug Sax or Bill Schnee. A highly regarded professional is also someone such as Steve Hoffman. All three of these guys have impeccable credits to their names and some Grammy Awards & nominations.

Doug Sax - Credits : AllMusic

Bill Schnee - Credits : AllMusic

Steve Hoffman - Credits : AllMusic



Here's a a quick look at Bruce Brown's body of work. An Internet "expert" or engineer among armchair engineers does not equal "...expert and highly regarded professional."

Bruce Brown - Credits : AllMusic


I'm not trying to start anything. I just want to put some perspective on the situation.

Chris,

Let me be clear about the content of my remarks. I do not consider myself an armchair engineer. I do not even truly know what that implies. It does not matter to me whether Doug Sax, Kevin Gray, Steve Hoffman or Bruce Brown is being quoted. My point was that, notwithstanding what those individuals profess, however you wish to regard their reputations and credits, I am gauging what sounds good to me by what I hear and how I feel about what I hear. That was clearly expressed by me and had nothing to do with Mr. Brown's bona fides as you regard them. I know almost nothing about him.

Barry at Soundkeeper Recordings was just paid a high compliment from Steve Hoffman who complimented Barry on his latest recording commenting on how live and present the recording sounds. Basically, I made the very same comments weeks ago in praise of Barry work even before Steve Hoffman offered his remarks in praise of Barry latest. That was/ is my point and I thought I made that rather clear.

In particular, "we need to be more careful..." Really? I wonder what made you focus on my remarks about expert, etc. as I am certainly not vouching for Mr. Brown's credibility, reputation or his credits. In other words his bona fides. That's the least of it. It's my case, it is not the person making the remarks that is credible, it's the idea, the perspective of it.

So if you want to put some perspective on the situation. BTW, what situation? Be careful. Be careful about what? My point was not bestowing or attributing credibility or expertise specifically to Mr. Brown. Rather to the idea of using one's listening acuity as a criterion for SQ.

In any case, I would appreciate if you would read my comments with the same attention you paid to Mr. Brown's body of work about which is a non-matter to me.

Thank you for your attention,
Richard

Hi Richard - I totally meant to include a sentence explaining I was just using your post as an illustration and not as something you in particular stressed greatly. I did get the sense that you consider Bruce a highly regarded professional though.

As to the major point of your post, using the ears more than the eyes, I agree very much with you. If something sounds good, then it is good no matter what it looks like.

No offense meant toward you Richard.

Originally Posted by The Computer Audiophile

Hi Richard - I totally meant to include a sentence explaining I was just using your post as an illustration and not as something you in particular stressed greatly. I did get the sense that you consider Bruce a highly regarded professional though.

As to the major point of your post, using the ears more than the eyes, I agree very much with you. If something sounds good, then it is good no matter what it looks like.

No offense meant toward you Richard.

Honestly, Chris, I was merely being "respectful" of a person (Bruce Brown) about whom I actually know nothing. I can understand how my courtesy toward Mr. Brown could reasonably be regarded as a vouching for his bona fides. I can further understand that compared to Sax, Gray, Hoffman, RVG, Diament and several other Masters, Mr. Brown may not have achieved the bona fides those Masters have merited and been recognized by their Peers with awards and recognition and by the Public who purchase their creativity.

What I was really doing, Chris, is attempting to take advantage of someone "visible" in the audio industry in the "news" commenting about and advocating the perspective of physically listening as a high criterion for ultimately determining what the recording sounds like to the listener and to shift focus away from an emphasis on the "numbers".

It appears my courtesy to Mr. Brown for the purpose of promoting my highly-valued criteria of what I hear and what I feel also touched on your complex equivalence for what qualifies one as a highly regarded professional (read highly regarded professional engineer/producer).

I made the mistake of interpreting your choice in using part of my post as a kind of instruction to me for my assessment of Mr. Brown, and as a platform to compare the different tiers of expertise.

Although you wrote "I did get the sense that I consider Mr. Brown a highly regarded professional though", that is a misconception which I may have easily contributed to. I know absolutely nothing about Mr. Brown.

And as you have taken the pains to help understand what you were expressing, I hope you'll accept my apologies for any strident tone in my post. Obviously, I attend this Forum because of its appeal to me and respect you and the talents you possess in providing us with a common ground to share all we have to offer one another and for your discernment in reviewing and capturing the essence of equipment that translates to our own search for excellence.

Thank you again for taking the time to connect with me.

Best,
Richard

The reason why he advocates you listen and not look is elucidated, in the context of the above example of Talking Heads, True Stories, here.

Well, the "Audacity Cowboys" are at it again over at the CA forum. HERE Go to end of thread.

wgscott and Teresa are saying the "Talking Heads - True Stories" album is not hi-rez. I see content out to 40k. This is what happens when you put tools into the hands of _______.

It makes for an enlightening read.

Originally Posted by wgscott

The reason why he advocates you listen and not look is elucidated, in the context of the above example of Talking Heads, True Stories, here.

It makes for an enlightening read.

Heh heh... like I said, I will take your opinion, Owen's opinion, Barry', Peter's, Dennis, and a few others opinions around here around here well before I will believe everything in that article. I do not always agree with you, but I certainly respect you guys a lot.

Paul