Thread: Bill Evans Live at Art D'Lugoff's: To of the Gate

Originally Posted by Kimo

Anyone heard it? Also interested in the new live Wes Montgomery. Thanks.

Yes. It's a great album - record of the month in Stereophile. The first few tracks are a bit shaky, sound-wise :/ but most of the set is beautifully recorded and the performance (of course) is genius.

Originally Posted by Kimo

Anyone heard it? Also interested in the new live Wes Montgomery. Thanks.

I own both. Concur with jhwalker's assessment. Bill Evans The Complete Village Vanguard Recordings 1961 (20 Bit) is a better recordings. Perhaps, Last Waltz and Consecration also. Performances are exquisite. Bill Evans passed two weeks after the Consecration sessions. His stamina was amazing considering how ill he was. You can discern this in the final sessions.

Similar assessment with Wes Montgomery where the recording quality is not wonderful. Yet the performances are. For me, the genius comes through for both artists despite the lower estimation in SQ quality.

Highly recommended. Enjoy the music,
Richard

Originally Posted by Kimo

Anyone heard it? Also interested in the new live Wes Montgomery. Thanks.

Just realized you are referring to the DLs from HDtracks. Correct? I am referring to the redbook CD versions. Sorry for my confusion. As I have not heard the DLs, and only the redbook versions, I yield to those who have. Still even at 44.1/16 for Evans and Montgomery titles you refer to, I would recommend them without hesitation.
Best,
Richard

Originally Posted by Kimo

I purchased from HDtracks. Will give my impressions shortly. Used HD Solo to upsample from 24/44 to 24/96 and then burned to DVD.

I have a large (LARGE!) Bill Evans/Trio/"Duets" collection. Without inferring anything about any particular vendor, my experience is includes the perception that nearly 99% (I know that's high!) of my collection that is redbook CD/Hybrid/SHM-SACD has better SQ than the DLs from whatever source, played through any of the wonderful players made available to us by those software engineer geniuses. I have at least five versions of Waltz For Debby including the DL from HDtracks (192/24) which, btw, is quite good. Better than the redbook/SACD versions? No. Of course, subjectivity is always in the equation. The double album, Live At D'Logoff's is in the high 80s, IMO, I will look forward to your assessment re DL from HDtracks re Live At D'Logoff's with the intention of adding that DL version to my collection. Do not regret the redbook CD purchase. Kind of grainy. But the larger perspective for me as a collector made the 2 Disc redbook version an imperative with these features that first attracted me in that capacity which I merely list for convenience below.

Look forward to learning what your assessment of the DL version is.
Thank you for your contribution and jhwalker's.
Best,
Richard

*A newly unearthed discovery of Bill Evans, recorded in Greenwich Village
on October 23, 1968, includes two complete, never before released concerts!*

Deluxe two-CD Digipak
Contains 28-page booklet with essays by Nat Hentoff, Gary Burton, Eddie
Gomez, Marty Morell, George Klabin & Art D Lugoff s son, Raphael D Lugoff.
Includes iconic photos by Tom Copi, Jan Persson, Raymond Ross, Fred Seligo,
and Herb Snitzer. Interesting historical documents includes contracts,
postcards, family photos, and more.

All previously unheard performances. The only Evans recording released from
The Village Gate! Digitally remastered from the original tapes; recorded
and mixed live, providing stellar sound & clarity. Features rare tracks (in
some cases recorded live with the Bill Evans trio for the very first time).

*Featured Artists*
Bill Evans: piano
Eddie Gomez: bass
Marty Morell: drums

Addendum: Just reviewed what is being offered at HDtracks re Evans at the Village Gate where I spent many a night mesmerized by the performers, i.e., Monk, Mann etc. The DL for Evans is 48/24. Of course, the redbook is 44.1/16,I doubt that the texture is any better than the hardcopy. jhwalker is correct; and I would add from my own assessment it does not get appreciably better. The redbook 2CDs is a few dollars less. Big Deal. Love the booklet. I am a fan, as I admitted. I am actually no longer motivated to spend the money for essentially the same experience without the other "extras" that may be much less important to others who focus on the music alone.
I am going on about something that is really in the provence of the beholder. So I am done about this recording. Main thing is too enjoy the music whatever the source.
Best,
Richard

Oops. It mistakenly referred to the resolutions as 48/24. You are correct at 44/24. KMtracks refers to what please?
Richard

Originally Posted by Kimo

KMtracks "Kimotracks" refers to my upsampling efforts. Apparently, HDtracks has taken some flack for their upsampling, so I just borrowed their name. I proudly announce my efforts; however.

I have tried upsampling 24/44 to 24/48 but haven't had great results. 24/96 seems to work well. I typically prefer the disc version to the usb version for playback.

Thank you so much for the clarification. "KMtracks" has a nice feel to it. If you care to comment (or not) how what does upsampling to 96/24 and burning to disc and playing the disc version mean in terms of the outcome. Kind of going in the opposite direction from the computer audio files. Not being critical. Just curious about what the difference is that makes the difference.
Enjoy the music.
Best,
Richard
Enjoy the music.

Richard, I generally prefer the results I get when upsampling 44 and 48 based material to 96. The differences are not huge, but there seems to better flow with the music. Some might prefer the native resolution. Just a matter of taste, I suppose.

I don't think I am moving away from Computer audio too much with this approach. I find, order, pay, download, upsample, and create with the computer. My Gill Audio DAC seems to prefer the output of a player to a hard drive. I will purchase a server based system at some point. This is my transitional period.

Still thinking about pulling the trigger on the Wes Montgomery set, and also considering the SHM SACD of the Smokin set. I wonder how good that can sound?[/QUOTE]

Thank you for sharing your process for preparing music for listening etc.

I have The Complete Riverside Recordings [Box Set] in my collection and well worth the expense. I have converted them to AIFF and the performances are magnificent and the SQ is very good. Well worth it in for all my criteria. I have several SHM-SACDs (won't go into my whole collection) which include California Dreaming, A Day In The Life and Smokin' At The Half Note. I do not regret the purchases which are fairly costly. Had to have them. Now I do.
Enjoy the music,
Richard

Attachment 1135

Originally Posted by Kimo

You own some nice titles there Richard.

I'm pretty sure Richard has every jazz title ever recorded. I'm deeply, deeply envious.

--David

Originally Posted by Kimo

You own some nice titles there Richard. I am a bit more hesitant with the jazz SHM SACDs. The only title that I have purchased is Getz/Gilberto. It is okay. I just have the old cd for the Smokin session. I can assume the SHM SACD version blows it away?

Merely sharing my listening experience with you. The one disadvantage for me is that I have no way to convert the SHM-SACDs. I therefore play them through an Oppo BDP-95 (HDMI) to a De-Embedder which sends the signal to Dac at 88.2/24 via S/PDIF coax BNC. And sounds wonderful to my ears. I have several versions of the Getz/Gilberto including the HDtracks DL at 96/24. And I can enjoy the redbook version very well. Meaning, I enjoy my collection of redbook CDs (the redbook CDs that are well produced) if not equally then to a level of satisfaction that is "just as good" in terms of enjoyable listening. I have read where some individuals do not care for SHM-SACD versions. It comes down to perception and individual preferences. Main criteria for me: If it sounds good and it makes me feel good, that is good enough.
From what jhwalker and I have experienced with Bill Evans Live at Art D'Lugoff's it's pretty close either HDtracks DL and the redbook version. I doubt an SHM-SACD would improve. But what do I know unless I have listened to it and then if it's not critically better just a bit of caché, then spending considerable more money just for the "label" does not cut it for me. By example, the DL of Sonny Rollin's Saxophone Collossus at 192/24 and the SHM-SACD version which I also have are so close in enjoyable listening unless it is Super Critical, either one will do. The SHM-SACD version, as you know, would cost twice the cost of the HDtracks DL, and I enjoy playing both (pretending to compare the two for critical listening).
Best,
Richard

Originally Posted by phatoldsun

Always value your perception, opinion, and listening experience here on CA, Richard. I'm a big fan of the the HDTracks DL of Getz/Gilberto (and Sonny Rollins) and ask for more of your listening experience.
1. Have you played the Getz SACD throught the analog outs on your Oppo 95 and compared it to the de-embedded route? Realizing the Oppo and the W4S both have ESS SABRE DACs, I was just wondering if you have a subjective opinion on this. My wife is often requesting the playing of Getz/Gilberto DL, yet she is a shiny disc person so I'm considering the purchase of the SACD.
2. I'm also wondering your opinion of the Oppo 95 throught the analog outputs in general. My Oppo 95 gets more play than my Mac Mini since my family still likes to play discs, but I do love the sound of it and i think that is due to the ESS DACs. For my next DAC upgrade, I'm considering something with ESS and since you have W4S and the 95 I'd appreciate your opinion.

Sorry if questions are OT. Thanks in advance.

Kimo, I hoping with your permission my response is acceptable as in the ball park and not entirely OT. Therefore, responding as follows:

Long, long time ago, ted_b posted at AVS about the Atlona HD570 as a method for connecting "one's" Oppo(s) (83SE/93/95) by HDMI to the embedder to by-pass the Oppo Dacs from converting to PCM in favor of the external Dac(s). As you inquire, I formerly used only the analog outs (pre-computer audio days) for music playing and DVD/DTS-A, i.e., Neil Young Archives, The Doors box set, etc. for 2ch and M.ch music audio listening. Then using only the HDMI for Blu-ray film and music. I truly loved the sound of analog outs for music. In fact I got flamed (FLAMED) at the Oppo owners thread, where I no longer visit, when the original Oppo 83 arrived; and I commented how disappointed I was with the analog outs on the Oppo 83. Two months later, Oppo announced the 83SE edition which improved the analog outs significantly compared to what was originally released and to their credit for taking some of us seriously. Suddenly, the flamers were raving over the SE version's output.

Now, presently, in having a W4S Dac2 (yes with ESS Sabre 9018), the later Atlona HD577 allows me to send via HDMI and thus by-pass the Oppo Dacs in favor of the W4S Dac2. And no, I do not use the analog outs any longer. Sorry for purposes of your inquiry. I do use an Oppo 93 (with XLRs and RCA analog outs for 2ch and M.ch) connected to my system for HT and the sound is glorious. No need for the Atlona.

I am thus not able (read or not willing to employ that route) to assess a comparison between the de-embedder vs the straight analog outs from the Oppo BDP-95 to W4S Dac2 to W4S preamp STP-SE. Having three editions of the Getz/Gilberto (redbook, SHM-SACD/HDtracks DL, 96/24), the distinctions would not (at this time) include SHM-SACD/Oppo 95/HDMI vs SHM-SACD/Oppo95/ LR Analog. Only Oppo95/HDMI/redbook CD/SHM-SACD and HDtracks DL 96/24.

Not being shy or reticent to express an opinion (subjective as they are), I am more concerned about the limitations of having only a year ago installed a computer audio system with the intentions of archiving 4000+ library and the limited experience with only one Dac, the Wyred 4 Sound Dac2. Given my experience, limited as it is, I no longer would dream of listening to music from Oppo to an AVS Receiver as I once did. My system (signature details the system) sounds the best I have ever heard. I prefer to play my collection through computer audio system. I own all the software players but prefer Amarra Symphony. There are times when I enjoy playing and contrasting Oppo BDP-95 with the computer audio system. DL vs SHM-SACD vs redbook CD. In my experience, my redbook CD collection was never revealed to me as to the SQ with the older systems I employed. I find my redbook CDs' SQ better than or as good as the DLs when played through my system.

Of course, there's more to that, but for our purposes and your focus: I just finished comparing Getz/Gilberto HDtracks DL 96/24 with SHM-SACD and redbook CD editions through Oppo BDP-95. I was laughing inside while listening. It's remarkable. When I am not with the one I love, I love the one I am with. The first listen was to the redbook CD. Wow! How good the SQ (truly excellent) sounded. I was chuckling inside. Then the DL which I played through (don't tell anyone) a new beta version of Amarra (I am a beta tester). Wow! How good the SQ (truly excellent) sounded. I was chuckling inside. Then I returned to the Oppo BDP-95 and played the SHM-SACD edition. Wow! How good the SQ (truly excellent) sounded. I was chuckling inside. I'd give the edge to the SHM-SACD edition (not every time with any album). The SHM-SACD was slightly more vivid and dynamic. But the DL was almost there just slightly (incrementally less). And Amarra (my favorite) sounded even better than the present published newly Released 2.4.1 build 4405. So close between the three that either one would be extremely enjoyable to listen to and in that order: SHM-SACD/DL/redbook CD.

I had a discussion with EJ at Wyred about your #2. What he said about Wyred implementing the ESS Sabre differently than Oppo was not said in confidence so I am free to share. Did his remarks color my own assessment. Yes and No. Yes, it confirmed what I heard but was trying to make sense out of. No, I had already decided that as good as music (confining myself to music rather than Blu-ray film) sounds coming from Oppo BDP-95, I prefer the W4S Dac2 over the Oppo Dac SQ. And with the de-embedder I can by-pass the Oppo Dac. Having done this both ways, my preference is the W4S Dac2. Not a general statement, i.e., any Dac that employs the ESS Sabre unless I have heard it. Merely, a face off between Oppo and W4S.

What I am willing to do when I can, is to connect some of the best analog RCA ICs I have and compare Oppo through Atlona to W4S Dac2 vs Oppo analog straight to W4S Dac2 and PM you if that's OK.

Kimo, pardon my OT, if you will. Or let me know otherwise.

Thank you for the stage,
Richard