Thread: Classical music, 2-channel, and sub-woofers?

Your description fits my townhouse exactly as one side I never hear(and they have two teenagers) while the other(where my sub would go) I can hear a ton.

My living room has roughly the same dimensions as the OP including the high cathedral ceiling. That is also why I am extra concerned about sub as I would think to "fill" all that space it would need to be turned up. Adding a sub or new speakers I consider the "big" solution but I am also considering going "small" instead. This would be having small speakers very near field say 1-3 feet. I don't know if that would work or just foolish idea but at least speakers would be about 12 feet minimum from shared wall so I think I could turn up easily but also would not need to as much since so close? Sound plausible or just bad idea? Anyone using speakers near field like that?

I posted about this recently in the Audioengine 2 thread I started. wgscott, I saw a recent post where you had B&W MM-1 and I thought those could possibly be used super near field as well. Do you like them and would you recommend them? I was kind of skeptical they are worth 2.5 times A2 but I have not heard either.

Thanks again.

Do you know your neighbors, or speak to them?

What kind of speakers do you have now, and how low do they go? If they go fairly low you could try turning up your system with the bass boosted just to see how your neighbors react to that. Or better yet, perhaps someone you know has a sub and you could borrow it for a day.

By the way, you don't need to get monster subs for classical music, especially if your satisfied with just gaining a bit of heft for the orchestral performances. Even the double basses only go down to about 40hz. Below 40hz is good for a kind of ambience and of course the pipe organ, but in my mind that's not terribly important. I live in an apt. and got two subs that go down to about 35hz. I got them for pretty much the same reasons you're thinking about, and I'm very happy with them (however they're not on the common wall).

As to putting the sub against the common wall; as long as you don't put it right up against it (touching it) or aim the speaker at it, I don't think it really matters much. You'll find that no matter where you put the sub the bass is often louder near the wall, whatever that exactly means for ones neighbors.

-Chris

"Do you know your neighbors, or speak to them?

What kind of speakers do you have now, and how low do they go? If they go fairly low you could try turning up your system with the bass boosted just to see how your neighbors react to that. Or better yet, perhaps someone you know has a sub and you could borrow it for a day."

I don't speak to my neighbors often but we get along fine and there are no real problems. So it is more from me just not wanting to create problems. Not in my current home but in the past I have been on the other side of wall from loud subwoofer from neighbors and it drove me crazy so maybe I am more sensitive to it. But I like to get along with neighbors and feel as long as they are reasonably considerate with me I will do more than the same in return. I may try to have my nephew bring his sub over to test it in my home and see the impact and how it improves my sound also.

One more maybe foolish question; can I add a passive sub to my bookshelf speakers? I have seen real cheap on craigslist some Cambridge Soundworks Ensemble set ups that have a passive sub and two small satellites. It looks very similar to Bose Acoustimass and assume it is. Instead of connecting to passive sub and then to satellites from sub could I use my current bookshelf speakers instead of satellites? Would that cause any damage to receiver or speakers? I did not know if it would even work and would the passive sub help to kind of fill out the sound of the bookshelves? Or even if something like this did work is it likely to make the sound worse?

Thanks.

One more maybe foolish question; can I add a passive sub to my bookshelf speakers?

Technically you probably could, but you'd have to be really lucky for it to sound good or fit in with your system. Why? Because you won't be able to control the loudness of the sub relative to your speakers, nor control the cross over.

In other words, even if the sub is a good unit and doesn't cause some kind of impedance problem, it's sound will most likely not fit in with your system/speakers. Even powered subs with active crossovers are not always easy to integrate.

-Chris

I kind of...

disagree with this:

Barrows as do I, even though I said it.

I was saying the above in context of what a particular poster seemed to want/need. Basically I meant to say that subs can improve one's sound considerably without them going down to the depths, one spending a lot of money and/or disturbing the neighbors in an apt. type circumstance (assuming one has book shelf speakers). I say this with certainty as it's the route I had to take.

In other words don't give up on subs just because your circumstances don't allow for the big, deep reaching, expensive ones.

-Chris

Do I understand this right about speaker level connections?

I can just hook up the subwoofers to the speaker terminals on the back of my two channel amp where the speakers are also connected. I then set the x/o and volume on the subwoofer itself and I am good to go?

Is there really stereo low level information?

What about going super cheap, like monoprice 12 inch woofers for $84 each?

You can do that, but I wouldn't suggest it unless you happen to know that the sub works well with your speakers and setup, or you're more concerned with just getting heavy bass and not worried about integration. The problem, at least as I see it, is that you can't control the bass extension of your main speakers.

In other words, your sub and speakers will likely be difficult to integrate seamlessly. Also, one of the advantages of having subs is that you can take some of the bass load off your main speakers, which you won't be able to do in this kind of setup.

-Chris

I was assuming that if Jim Smith was recommending full or near-full range speakers with two subs it wasn't then to electronically make them less than full range.

I was assuming that if Jim Smith was recommending full or near-full range speakers with two subs it wasn't then to electronically make them less than full range.

I don't think that has much to do with what he is recommending.

The real issue is that it isn't easy to integrate subs with other speakers, and the more control you have over any of the speakers/subs the better off you are.

If you already have full range speakers your subs will double the bottom end, which may work out, but probably will not. (By the way, with cheap subs, which is what I think you said you were looking at, it almost certainly will not work).

One example of what I'm talking about: One of the advantages of subs is that you can place them where the bass sounds best in your room (the least standing waves and the like). Now if your regular speakers double the sub's frequencies that advantage will be negated because you can't raise their cross over point (assuming you placed them separately for best imaging and general balance).

-Chris

Originally Posted by barrows

A properly integrated subwoofer can make very substantial differences in the depiction of soundstage depth, and ambience protrayal. and the difference in soundstage depth with the sub on or off is remarkable-this can make in big difference in classical music.

I agree totally with this. I mostly listen to classical stuff and have had lots of listening both with and without subs. Now wouldn't dream of not having stereo subs as part of the system. Not only will you get the bottom octave but it will help make the rest of the system sound effortless by taking the ultra hard yakka off your amp. And you can place them according to your taste. I have mine in the corners where they can growl and send a shiver down your spine.
Depending on how you trace the origins of music, you could argue that human speech is intricately tied in with its development. In many ways music seems to mimic its phraseology and the way emotion is delivered. The female voice represents the treble and the male the bass. By neglecting the very deep you are robbing the male part of some of its darkness and power.

Originally Posted by wgscott

Do stereo subs have to be symmetrically arranged with respect to the speakers (i.e., both six ft away)?

wgscott
there would be far more experienced here to answer that. Mine are pretty close but not exact, Probably half a metre out. However that is over a distance of nine metres. Mine is a very oddball setup though.