Thread: CAPS 2.1e build - OS advice please

I've finally given in to the temptation of building a dedicated network server/player. By carefully selecting my components (all in the post from various places around the world) I face an interesting dilemma, having three operating systems and thus software options to chose from. After hours of trolling though forums etc I've shortlisted the following:

WIN7 with J River player ala CAPS 2.0
Mountain Lion (hackingtosh build) with Audivana Plus
Vortexbox with Logitech Media Server (LMS)

All three offer excellent personal control interface apps for my new iPad (with Squeezepad for LMS proving to be a surprisingly good package)

My primary objective is for a world class digital audio player in my listening room, the player to feed my rack via the new SOTM PCIe card. LMS is available on all three platforms to allow network linking from a single music library for the gaggle of Boomboxes which have infiltrated every room and keep the family entertained when the main system is idle.

Which operating system option will best enable me to achieve this? I don't need ripping, dithering, rate conversion, room correction or volume control, I simply wish to pick up the iPad, press play and enjoy....

Whilst I'm sure everyone has preconceived preferences towards the various options (and others besides), I'm looking for a technical superiority to sway my decision.

Guys?

I'd suggest getting a Synology NAS to run LMS and then a CAPSv2 for the listening room. The NAS stays on always and provides redundancy/backup for your music. CAPSv2 can be on whenever you want and will not be burdened by running LMS at the same time.

The LMS wouldn't be running at the same time as the main rig, unless I follow the Vortexbox (Sonore clone) route in which case it would be controlling everything. For me the Vortexbox is a quick and convenient way of loading LMS onto a Linux based system to create if you like a super NAS with USB playback output.

My server will mechanically approximate to a CAPSv2 clone with some improvements in areas that interest me (power supplies) and of course the next generation of PCIe card. However, the collection of parts that make up a CAPSv2 don't necessarily have to run under a Windows environment, I understand that Chris chose this path as it was the most familiar and user friendly for him.

I face the same decision for operating system selection, only I'm maybe more familiar with both Linux and Mac software so in my case it'll be a technical superiority rather than a user friendliness that sways it for me.

A technical question: My intention is to use two SSD hard drives, 1 x 90GB for the OS and a second 1 x 480GB for the music files.

Will I get a better performance connecting the second drive to the internal USB 3.0 bus, to the 3G/b external eSATA port or to the internal 3G/b SATA socket?

There will be no other devices connected to the USB bus (either the 2.0 or the 3.0)

Thanks

Originally Posted by dpaws

My primary objective is for a world class digital audio player in my listening room, the player to feed my rack via the new SOTM PCIe card. LMS is available on all three platforms to allow network linking from a single music library for the gaggle of Boomboxes which have infiltrated every room and keep the family entertained when the main system is idle.

Which operating system option will best enable me to achieve this? I don't need ripping, dithering, rate conversion, room correction or volume control, I simply wish to pick up the iPad, press play and enjoy....

Guys?

You should try MinimServer. It runs on any platform. Much better in terms of browsing.
I tried to achieve the same degree of flexibility with LMS...but it seems either it cannot or have to buy and install new plug-ins.

Also Minim is light of size and fast...

Thanks Mike - I assume from your set up that you're using DS as the client (player) - is there a local client that integrates with Minim and also is there an associated iPad control app?

Originally Posted by dpaws

Thanks Mike - I assume from your set up that you're using DS as the client (player) - is there a local client that integrates with Minim and also is there an associated iPad control app?

Hi. Yes, the Linn DS is the renderer/player, but only used as a digital transport to Lyngdorf.
Server is the NAS, with MinimServer installed.
There is no local client with Minim (and no need).
I control using iPAD (Kinsky or SongBook Lite)...and occasionally from the desktop computer using Kinsky.

The Minim was my biggest upgrade concerning ease of browsing.

I contacted SOTM for further info on the new PCIe card....

"There is no tX-USBexp driver for MAC OS. but tX-USBexp works with hacked NEC driver. But please remember it is not perfect. External storage work but USB audio doesn’t work. So I don’t suggest to use with Mac OS.

Best Regards, Lee"

Gutted, the hackingtosh and thus the Audirvana option is no longer available (at least for the moment)

I believe this info contradicts that given by the US supplier in a different post on the forum.

Update 1: Most of the hardware has arrived. The basic spec is Streacom FC5WSevo case / Gigabyte H61N USB3.0 / i3 2100T Sandybridge CPU / PicoPSU 160XT with 8GB RAM, a 60GB Intel SSD (OS) & 480GB OCZ SSD (files). Still waiting for the SOTM card to arrive in the mail, it is Italy after all - Christmas is a possibility!

Some teething issues with the passive cooling system inside the Evo5 case, the motherboard has the CPU on the "wrong" side! Fixed by reversing the back panel, removing a small piece with a jigsaw and applying epoxy to hold the MB supports in their new position.

The system is running the Win8 trial version, operating headless with control via iPad/Splashtop 2. I'm trying to be patient with Win8, but which muppet decided to remove the Start button?!?

I've tried playing with Linux (Ubuntu)... and tried... and tried... and slept and tried again... at least it makes Win8 seem user friendly! Unfortunately all of the manual scripting turns me off to such an extent that Linux is no longer on the options list for me.

So, Microsoft, it's all yours! I have three options, listed in order of preference: WHS 2011 / Win8 / Win7 - Logitech Media server is available on all three. For local playback I have JPlay, Squeezeplay and Slavesqueeze (fingers crossed for a Black Ops project)

WHS is the lightest of the packages, but may ultimately fail due to hardware integration. Win8 is preferred over Win7, apparently quicker with less processor loading according to some of the geekiest dark corners online. I'll keep you posted...

Originally Posted by dpaws

I have three options, listed in order of preference: WHS 2011 / Win8 / Win7. I'll keep you posted...

I missed Windows Server Essentials 2012, a new Win8 style interface (gulp) but with a thriving and friendly forum for support I'm quietly optimistic...

Originally Posted by Audio_ELF

Linux... If you are interested in Linux why not try VortexBox - the basis of Sonore; SotM and Wired4Sound servers?

The Linux OS (inc the Votexbox build) does offer a convenient package BUT there is a big difference in audio quality from a standard Linux build and the ones used by Sonore etc.

Whilst all of the extra kernels are open source and therefore available to all, it does take someone with a lot of experience to put the right combination together. There's a lot going on behind the scenes which is what elevates the top Linux audio servers above the rest... I don't have that experience - simples

An analogy - In the past the Jaguar sports cars have been based on a Ford Mondeo chassis. However if you went out and bought a Mondeo expecting to have Jaguar performance when you'll be sorely disappointed.

Originally Posted by dpaws

The Linux OS (inc the Votexbox build) does offer a convenient package BUT there is a big difference in audio quality from a standard Linux build and the ones used by Sonore etc.

Whilst all of the extra kernels are open source and therefore available to all, it does take someone with a lot of experience to put the right combination together. There's a lot going on behind the scenes which is what elevates the top Linux audio servers above the rest... I don't have that experience - simples

An analogy - In the past the Jaguar sports cars have been based on a Ford Mondeo chassis. However if you went out and bought a Mondeo expecting to have Jaguar performance when you'll be sorely disappointed.

So- I think your analogy is a bit off, but the best of both worlds would be a Vortexbox server and Sonore Player then, no?

Indeed, I think the best sound is a high powered server and low powered player, connected over a network. There are some tradeoffs in doing that though.

-Paul

Originally Posted by Paul.Raulerson

....but the best of both worlds would be a Vortexbox server and Sonore Player then, no? Indeed, I think the best sound is a high powered server and low powered player, connected over a network. There are some tradeoffs in doing that though. Paul

I completely agree with all the above and also that there is always a compromise somewhere in the chain. I prefer to do all my DSP/rate conversions offline with software as storage is cheap and the processor loading is thus reduced - but each to their own.

Vortexbox + Sonore tweaks would be a fairly compelling package, although personally I wouldn't need the ripping/tagging facility as I have yet to find a package that's trustworthy. At the moment I use Jaikoz/dbpoweramp and edit whilst watching the footy on a weekend.

I'm confident I can achieve if not better the performance of the above combo by utilising Jplay and LMS in conjunction with a Windows home server OS. Fingers crossed...

Originally Posted by dpaws

I'm confident I can achieve if not better the performance of the above combo by utilising Jplay and LMS in conjunction with a Windows home server OS. Fingers crossed...

I believe many people feel that while Windows is easier to setup, Linux can sound better...

Eloise

Originally Posted by dpaws

I'm confident I can achieve if not better the performance of the above combo by utilising Jplay and LMS in conjunction with a Windows home server OS. Fingers crossed...

Maybe- and of course, what matters is what sounds good to you and what you enjoy. I have heard really highly tuned Windows systems (i.e. the DAC was designed to run with special Windows programs) sound really really good. And a well tuned CAPs server sounds really good too.

But Linux sounds very good indeed, even before you start tuning, and gives you support for streaming and low cost players that perform like very high end players.

Paul

Originally Posted by Audio_ELF

I believe many people feel that while Windows is easier to setup, Linux can sound better... eloise

I do agree, in the right hands the Linux OS has the greatest potential as there is far less bloat. The deterrent, as you quite rightly mentioned, is the initial set up and maintenance. With Windows being a far more user friendly interface, I'm hoping to achieve at least some of that Linux system efficiency by selecting a "home server" software.

One of the positives from the home build is that, at any time, the system can be changed over to a different OS simply by replacing the boot disk. If in future the Mac drivers for the PCIe card are released then I'd certainly be interested in a hackingtosh boot up. I do intend to make a Vortexbox boot disk so that I can hear the differences for myself in my own system. However, that'll be later on, for now WHS Essentails 2012 is my "weapon" of choice.

Of course one of the drawbacks is that urge to forever tweak and tinker with the system... I still have the SlimDevices Transporter on the rack so A/B real time comparisons will be possible with the push of a button.

For those following the build blog - the SOTM card arrived safely and somehow even managed to evade Italian import duties!! However I'm still waiting for the 1x PCIe riser cable to arrive... you can't imagine the frustration

Originally Posted by dpaws

I do intend to make a Vortexbox boot disk so that I can hear the differences for myself in my own system. However, that'll be later on, for now WHS Essentails 2012 is my "weapon" of choice.

Just to make you aware and a warning - if you want to try VortexBox unless you really know what you are doing you need to have a single HDD (or SSD) which can be wiped completely by the VortexBox install - there is no "Live CD" type option.

Eloise

Originally Posted by Audio_ELF

Just to make you aware and a warning - if you want to try VortexBox unless you really know what you are doing you need to have a single HDD (or SSD) which can be wiped completely by the VortexBox install - there is no "Live CD" type option. Eloise

Yes, thank you - I have a collection of spare smaller SSD's so I can dedicate one to each of the OS boots. Well, that's the plan...