Submitted by Underdog on Mon, 07/26/2010 - 13:35
Hi all, this is my first post here but i've reading the site and forums for a while. is fantastic.
First of all sorry for my english, not my main lang.
Well..where to start..
1) The mission.
I need my music to sound better.
2) My actual Software and equipment
Windows 7 64 Foobar2000 (WASAPI) --> Creative Soundblaster X-Fi Xtremegamer --> Sennheiser HD555 (with foam mod)
I only use my PC and I use Headphones for music (not really need speakers)
when i first bough my HD555 i was blown away by the sound in comparation to my old crappy headphones. But now..i'm feeling the the music does not fill my soul as before, I have no clue of audiophile words (i'm trying hard to learn) and i am a bit uncertain of the next steps.
3) Possible next steps
- Maybe i have my OS/soundCard/Foobar with whong config
- Maybe i need to upgrade some component of the chain...
- Xonar Essence ST or USB DAC
- Or maybe the headphones and their sound signature are the problem (i really don't know how can i tell what's the problem, and i don't really know how to express if i like the music analitic, or clinical or strawberry flavor(..where can i learn?)
4) In order to do some testing y connected my old Hi-Fi (i hope) equipment (Yamaha GX-5) to my sound card hoping i can use their headphone out (and take advantage of the amplifier in the Yamaha to fuel some more the headphones). I did it via the jack out of the sound card (does'nt seems to have optical out but in the product specifications says some of a Optical Out via shared 3.5mm mini jack (no clue what is this) (my hi-fi has optical in). The sound is totally crap with this (i've always loved the sound in my yamaha). Maybe this testing is idiotic (as ive said before i've got no much idea of specifications voltages, etc..)
I hope i made myself clear :) If not, please ask.
I'f anybody is interested the specs of the Yamaha are--
http://www2.yamaha.co.jp/manual/pdf/av/english/hifis/GX-5.pdf
and my sound card is this
http://asia.creative.com/products/product.asp?category=1&subcategory=208&product=15853&nav=1&listby=brand
Help!
Forums - Head-Fi.org Community
MBP → M2Tech hiFace → Heed Q-PSU/Dactilus → Heed CanAmp → Sennheiser HD650
I know head-fi forums, just thought that this was a better place to learn aboun computer audio, u know.
Hello Underdog.
Welcome to CA. Your English is fine btw
I shouldn’t worry too much about the Hi Fi jargon. Nobody really knows what any of it actually means.
You don’t say what format you are using, Flac, Wav, CD in drive, etc (?)
The first possible problem I’ve noticed is the connection options the SB X-fi has. It seems to be restricted to 3.5mm stereo jack only. I believe different versions of this card exist with other connection options.
As a game playing Hi Fi enthusiast I must say I’m not a fan of the Sound Blaster range of cards and if you are having problems getting satisfactory audio from this card another sound card may well give you better results and allow you to connect your PC to other Hi Fi.
The Xonar Essence ST I think would certainly be a step in the right direction.
There is no reason why you shouldn’t be able to get satisfactory sound out of your PC using Flac file > WASAPI or AISO > Xonar ST > headphones or Hi FI.
I have a gaming PC and a laptop. I did try a few audio cards out feeding my Hi Fi and then when I got my first Dac also tried various configurations of with the Dac and the PC to get satisfactory audio.
The conclusions I came were
1) PC > audio card > Hi Fi = Okay but really satisfactory.
2) PC > USB Dac > Hi Fi = a great improvement but still not entirely satisfactory
3) Laptop > USB Dac > Hi Fi = best sound quality and most versatile given I can just plug the USB cable from my PC to Dac should I want to have game sound through the Hi Fi. It also gives easiest opportunities for upgrading.
The simple fact is that gaming PC's are noisy.
I think before you give up on the headphones think about a different sound card or a Dac. There are a great many very competent Dacs in the same price range as the Xonar ST.
1)Cond dis block. Sony Viao(xp32+ASIO4all+foobar) Belkin Pro USB. HRT Music Streamer Pro. Custom balanced XLR interconnects. Exposure 25RC integrated (XLR input mod+caps/res+transformer mods). Modded World Audio HD83 HP amp.HiFi Cables air lock speaker cables. Custom 3 way 52 litre monitors,Volt bass&ABR, Scanspeak mid&Hi. HD595 cans.
2)Quantum Elec based active system self built.
Thanks!
I'm migrating my music library to mp3 320 or Flac when possible.I dont complain for poor quality on mp3 with low bitrates.
I only tried the Hi-fi thinking that his internal amp will do somethig to my headphones (i was wrong), maybe if i feed the hifi via DAC then plug headphones to the Hi-fi is the proper way.
Anyway the Hi-fi is old, and what i'm lloking for is sound quality through headphones.
I've got a near silent Pc (antec case, Hd's attached with rubber, passive cooling for the microprocessor, etc..)
Is there any reason other than noisy PC that u get better quality from a Laptop than the PC?
I'm more inclined toward a DAC than a Xonar Essence ST (i would like manual volume control and i think is more flexible) Plus for gaming i'm ok with mi x-Fi and i think i could use it for games only.
I've been hearing of several DAC's that would fit
Musiland 02 monitor --> in head-fi people says that the headphone output is not very good. But i'ts not too expensive
Audio-gd sparrow--> Seems cool but a bit expensive with shipping.
Nuforce uDAC--> i don't have too much info of this one
So...u agree that DAC > essence ?
What are your DAC recomendations?
You don't say what your budget is, but it would be worth looking at some Pro audio equipment - the EMu 0404 USB2.0 would be a good match to your setup for not too much money. The other place to look is on eBay - some good Chinese imports on there, the two which come to mind are the Aune Mini-DAC and the Matrix Mini-I DAC. My final suggestion would be to look at the FireStone Audio range.
Okay that wasn't my final suggestion, my totally final suggestion would be to look if you can get a second hand Musical Fidelity X-series headphone amp with built in USB port - the computer connection wont be the best, but will start you off if you're looking to be able to upgrade later then the headphone amp will power anything up to Sennheiser HD800s if you ever want to aim that high and you can add a better DAC to it later.
Eloise
Mac OSX 10.5 with iTunes (mostly ALAC) --USB--> Musical Fidelity A1008 --> B&W CDM 7NT (iPhone remote)
Thanks Eloise!
Now i'm officialy lost
Acording to forums/reviews there seems to be a battle between lots of oustanding/to good to be true/it seems like a robery DACs or Dacs/amp below 150$-200$ (note thet i'm a bit skeptical there)
I need one connected to my pc via USB (my motherboard doesn't seem to have coaxial or optical, but maybe converters are available) to plug my headphones in (my HD555 or an upgrade) with a noticeable better sound that my x-fi xtremegamer (i have the intuition that i'm more of the warm/musical kind of person, but how could i know,sigh) .I listen all kinds of music (electronic/rock/classical/[insert your crazy genres here]).
If anybody has a sure bet, please share.
List of contenders by now..
Musiland 02 monitor
Audio gd sparrow
purepiper
Firestone
Emu 0404
nuforce udac
Aune mini dac
I'm gona die one of this days, when i was younger i had not this kind of headaches, lol
Thanks Eloise! Now I'm officially lost.
Well thank you kind Sir... my job is officially done. :-)
As you say, there are great long discussions with people having one or other of these DACs mostly saying how great they are. What most people don't have is any comparison between them. The problem is, most of these devices never get any "official" or professional testing by people who do have the ability / experience to compare them to other devices. Also they are not sold through main-stream dealers who can offer demo facilities (you may find FireStone Audio and nuForce in HiFi shops and find the EMu in a pro-audio store), so you end up taking a chance on spending your £100 (or however much) with no real recourse (except s/h sales) if they don't live up to your expectation.
Sorry, as I've not helped you much here at all...
Eloise
Mac OSX 10.5 with iTunes (mostly ALAC) --USB--> Musical Fidelity A1008 --> B&W CDM 7NT (iPhone remote)
Au contraire
You have been of great help pointing me to several alternatives worth considering.
My problem is that i have not enough expertise to know what my ears want (o.O) and translate it in technical words. When i play music in my old Hi-fi i know instintively that i love that sound, when i play in my PC i don't feel the same.
Anyway i'm trying to learn reading reviews, websites, et.. , but i have mixed feelings about learning about sound without listening it.Wish i had unlimited budget.
The answer is quite simple underdog. If you prefer the sound from your old Hi Fi then listen to that and forget about PC audio.
Reviews can help to make you aware that a particular product is available but with regard to how these products will sound in your system, in your home, to your ears; absolutely useless.
1)Cond dis block. Sony Viao(xp32+ASIO4all+foobar) Belkin Pro USB. HRT Music Streamer Pro. Custom balanced XLR interconnects. Exposure 25RC integrated (XLR input mod+caps/res+transformer mods). Modded World Audio HD83 HP amp.HiFi Cables air lock speaker cables. Custom 3 way 52 litre monitors,Volt bass&ABR, Scanspeak mid&Hi. HD595 cans.
2)Quantum Elec based active system self built.
My old Hi-fi cd player finally died 2 months ago after 12 years of faithful service, i've tried to router the audio signal from the pc to the amp in the hi-fi (that works) , but the headphone sound is no good, plus i believe that computer audio is my future so i want to find a computer audio related solution...
I'm an headphones lover, and I listen to my music only through them: my recommendation is to upgrade yourheadphones, you will notice much more improvement than upgrading your electronics. I'd choose a HD600 or 650, depending on your preferences.
Massimiliano
Thanks!
I plan to slowly upgrade my equipment but i'm not sure where to start. Maybe u are right and i should upgrade the headphones first.
how would u define the sound differences betwenn hd600 and hd650?
We're a little OT, but the HD600s are generally more neutral and open, while the HD650s have a full-body sound, with a bigger bass impact.
I prefer the HD650s is you ask me, but you can't go wrong with either. Next step would be a dedicated headphone amp, and I'd leave a dac at the end.
But switching the headphones will be a huge improvement over your current setup. You can easily find them used, and sell if you don't like them, without loosing money.
Massimiliano
Simple solution:
- buy a Benchmark DAC1 USB. Great sounding DAC and has awesome quality headphone amps. IMO better than vast majority of standalone headphone amps.
- then upgrade headphones as funds allow
Don't worry about the computer configuration, that's the least of your worries
Nyal Mellor, Acoustic Frontiers
Mac Mini 10.6(iTunes --> Pure Music --> Flux EPURE linear phase parametric EQ). Weiss DAC2.
Simple solution:
- buy a Benchmark DAC1 USB. Great sounding DAC and has awesome quality headphone amps. IMO better than vast majority of standalone headphone amps.
- then upgrade headphones as funds allow
Oh I think you missed stage 1 that the original poster would need: find $800-1000 on top of his originally commented $100-200 budget.
Eloise
Mac OSX 10.5 with iTunes (mostly ALAC) --USB--> Musical Fidelity A1008 --> B&W CDM 7NT (iPhone remote)
Yes, seems to be a bit out of reach at the moment.
The 100-200 budget is only a beginning, i can increase it if need but,there seems to be good DACs at low price range, especially for me that i have no idea of what i need. The Senns seems cool, i'm gonna search in second ear market looking for a good offer.