Just received: M2Tech Hiface USB interface

Kamil, I also received my HiFace (BNC output) yesterday and have been playing with it since then, non-stop. This is a very impressive device! I've been trying to find a solution to the USB limitations (as discussed in this forum), and haven't been very happy with M-Audio Transit and Edirol UA1X USB, Focusrite Saffire (FireWire input, which I currently use for non-professional sound editing). These are superb interfaces but, so far, the HiFace beats all these options, and it's not even burned in (for those who believe in such things - I do).

However, I have encountered one annoying problem: Sometimes, when I select a new track, I can hear a "click" noise between the song that was being played and the new track. It's not always there, but it's distracting. I wrote M2Tech to find out if they have a solution; I look forward to their response. If you know something about this and have had a similar experience... I use Foobar, and I'm also bypassing Windows (Vista, 64bit - but will switch to 7 next week).

Overall, my impression is very positive, despite the minor inconvenience described above. I'll keep you posted.

Walcasar, I solved that. The exact same thing happens on my Macbook running OSX. It turns out that Hiface will still play USB to SPDIF into my DAC even if I select a different device in the sound output preferences. Somehow when I did that, the clicking disappeared. Funny how the same problem also exists on a different operating system.

Thanks, Kamil, but I'm not sure I understand what you did on your Mac. On my laptop PC, I followed exactly what the manual describes in order to "obtain the best sound quality", i.e., to use it in kernel streaming mode (I also downloaded and installed foo_out_ks.dll). I use Foobar. As a precaution, I also deactivated all the sound-related software (microphone, optical output, RCA outputs, etc - everything is off). In sum, I still hear that clicking sound when I change tracks manually. Update: Still no news from the guys from M2Tech, but I only sent my message two days ago, on Thursday...

I wil make sure M2 Tech hear of the problem, playback here through a PC has been faultless but if there is a problem it needs to be sorted.
Keith.

While you're piling it on, ask 'em about that forthcoming Mac support ...!!!

I have tried the 'beta' drivers for Mac and apart from one niggle they were fine, full release expected very soon.
Keith.

I just got my M2Tech but I haven't connected it up yet b/c my new computer comes tomorrow - new HP desktop with windows 7 professional 64 bit. I am wondering what settings you guys have on your PC's using windows 7? What do I need to do when I set up the computer?

I am using a PS Audio Digital Link III DAC and I think I am going to use Media Monkey. Do I need to use WASAPI or ASIO? I am coming from an XP machine using ASIO but read that W7 has a better audio path so I am wondering if I even need it? Did you guys just use the disc that came with the M2Tech or did you go to the site to get the latest drivers?

Thanks!

jb

Just noticed on their website: downloadable Mac driver version 1.03.

So I just got my computer with W7 x64 and I installed the drivers but I can't get it to play any sound. I went into Media Monkey and under the output there isn't anything to select other than REALtek or primary sound driver. When I plug my dac in with usb it recognizes as usb codec and it works fine.

What am I doing wrong?

Thanks

I finally got my hands on one of these (thank you Keith @ Purite Audio). As it now has software available to download for Mac and I have been keen to use it with Amarra.

I am a legacy DAC owner as I am still using my beloved Audio Note DAC.

To date I have been using a DDDAC USB to SPIDF interface.

This, like most, is limited to 48kHz and 16 Bit and is based on the ubiquitous PCM 2707 chip. My DAC will actually handle 96kHz.

This accepted, the DDDAC is an excellent implementation of this chip and has bettered the USB input of many DACs including the MHDT Havana and Audio Note DACs.

It seems many DAC manufacturers have stuck on rather poorly implemented USB interfaces which are often after thoughts, very few have proper USB inputs like the Wavelink/Ayre DACs so the Hiface is could be an excellent upgrade even if your DAC has a USB interface.

In comparison to my DDDAC the M2Tech is an absolute joy, and works very well with Amarra. Music has more detail ,space and poise and just feels better.

I have quite a few higher resolution files such as Fleetwood Mac Rumours, Frank Sinatra at the Sands, and Dark Side Of The Moon plus a growing collection of archived vinyl at higher resolution.

Here the HiFace excels, so it is almost happy days – this thing only costs around £100!

The ‘almost’ is because it does sometime crackle momentarily when changing sample rates and I can’t get Audiomidi to load it up when I start my computer, so it has to be dome manually each time I boot up – this could well be my error.

I am still waiting for the really big USB/Firewire to SPIDF showdown – Weiss INT202 Vs Wavelength Wavelink Vs Empirical Audio Off Ramp Vs Sonicweld Diverter, but in the meantime this Italian ‘thingy’ has come from left field and set the bar very high, and at a price!

When the big four are all wheeled out I think Chris will need a new Forum Topic of ‘Computer to DAC interfaces’. I suspect there will going to be an almighty dust up!

Would it have any advantage to get the BNC output version if my DAC has RCA input and using a BNC-RCA cable?

The way I see it, while there probably won't be an advantage with your current dac, you won't lose any quality and if you ever upgrade, you will be set.

Tweekgeek says they're sold out till January!

The fact that it works with Amarra seals the deal for me. I've been trying to find a solution for connecting to my "legacy" dac that's better than TOSLINK. If only I could find a dealer that has them in stock!

Wicked Digital have them in Australia. Postage wouldn't be much for such a small item.

Thanks. I reached out to both them and Keith at Purite Audio. Hopefully, one of them will have one!

-Patrick

He still has them in stock and I should receive mine next week!

Hello HiFace users. This is just to give you an update on the HiFace "clicking" problem that I described earlier (I heard a click whenever I pressed play, pause, stop): It has completely disappeared when I upgraded my system to Windows 7. All I can say is that HiFace is one of the best (and cheapest!) upgrades I've added to my system. It's particularly impressive when playing hi-res music. After having burned-in HiFace for about a week, I am now comparing it to M-Audio Transit ($80 - usb-toslink), Focusrite Saffire (via Firewire, $400), and Bel Canto's USB Link 24/96 ($600) using my Bryston DAC. From my initial (non-scientific) observation, I can easily say that HiFace (BNC connectors) beats these three products, especially with hi-res music. Playing 16bit 44.1KHz music the different between the three is not noticeable, but switching to higher resolutions... Oh my. I never knew the soundstange could be that precise in width and depth! I'll be updating this with some more specific feature of the HiFace vis-a-vis the other three products in the near future (possibly in the New Year).

I'd like also to let you know that Marco (from M2Tech) and Michael Garner (from Tweekgeek.com) have been very helpful in finding a solution to my problem. Michael even volunteered to send me another unit to make sure it was not a hardware problem. Thanks Marco and Michael - problem solved.

In sum, after I was able to fix the clicking problem, I have only positive things to say about HiFace. An impressive product that costs only $150-180.

Walcascar, is there an improvement with the hiface and Bryston over just the Bryston's USB input?

Bryan

Brian, the short answer is YES. Not because of the Bryston, which is in my opinion one of the best DACS in the market, but because of the "USB limitations", which cannot output high resolution, as discussed here and in the audiophile media (Stereophile, Absolute Sound). The BNC and RCA (coaxial) inputs in the Bryston are way superior to the USB, and that might be one of the reasons why I prefer the sound via a USB-SPDIF converter, the HiFace.

Walcascar, can you explain what the audible differences are that you hear between direct USB versus the hiface in to the BDA? I'm interested in what the differences are. Is it increased resolution because of less noise or jitter? Is it a more analog, smoother sound?

Bryan

Brian, the difference is mostly noticeable when playing high-res music, especially 24bit-96Khz and above. I believe jitter is considerably reduced, thus contributing to a more analog sound. But what really impressed me was the soundstage, as described in my earlier comment. I'm planning to write a comprehensive review of the HiFace when I return from my vacation in early January, comparing it to three products that I have with me at the moment: the Transit, Focusrite, and Bel Canto (which I really like - it's my second favorite). I'm too busy at the moment and I can't stop re-listening to all my music files.

Hi there
I received my Hiface today and I have to say that straight out of the box it has made a noticeable difference to my Havana dac. Recommended.

Having said that am looking forward to the Linux drivers for MPD.

Cheers
Andrew

Is the hiface an interface adapter only, or is it also a reclocker? I'm still not sure I understand exactly what a reclocker is.

The HiFace is not so much a reclocker as an emitter. A reclocker takes a signal that has timing information embedded, extracts that timing, cleans it up, and then recreates a signal with improved embedded timing. The USB signal has no timing information embedded until it is converted to spdif or i2s. Thus, the HiFace doesn't reclock, it is creating a lower jitter signal at the first instance of embedding timing information.

I only see good comments about Hiface. Did anyone here compare Hiface with Lynx AES16? I wonder if the difference in price justifies going to Lynx.

Cheers,
Edu

I agree, I've only seen positive comments; however, people are mainly comparing it to devices in its price range ie. the Musiland 01, Teralink, m-audio etc. I too wonder how it stacks up to the big boys.

After several days of testing, I can't help but be amazed by the value of this product. In the context of my system, I seem to be hearing more treble air and more refined layering of instruments... particularly with naturally recorded Chesky label cymbals (the cymbals are playing in the hall rather than sounding like smeared sizzle). ... with Amarra OFF. It's subtle but meaningful SO I am beginning to wonder if it is psychologically induced.

Can anybody with Hiface/Amarra validate the advantage of a Hiface w/o Amarra on iTunes in their own setup?

Whatever it is, the Hiface seems to reduce the quality gap between using an Amarra or not. Perhaps it's the software that is installed with the hiFace that does this. BTW I only did serious comparisons at 16/44.

Any feedback from current HiFace owners who are Mac users? How are the new drivers? Any issues?

Mr. C. So many terms to learn. Reclock, dejitter, emitter. It's kind of confusing. So would a reclocker after an emitter make sense?

I find it interesting that one user of the Bryston BDA which has dejitter technology in it, and I assume for USB input just like the other inputs, finds an improvement with the hiface. I thought once jitter is reduced to a certain point, there is no audible benefits to even less jitter. I do not have the specs on how much the BDA reduces jitter, to what level, so maybe my comment isn't valid.

It's been mentioned many times on this discussion board over the last couple of days that async makes so much more sense. I wish some of these dac's out today, like the BDA from Bryston or the MHDT Havana, had firewire. Surely it can't cost that much to add firewire to the BDA. Just take one of the 8 inputs the Bryston has an make one a firewire.

Bryan

@kamil

I was interested in this facet of the HiFace because it apparently bypasses some conversions in the OSX audio stack.

@bmckenney

yes, a reclocker after an emitter makes sense. Essentially all reclockers go after emitters. I use emitter to mean the device that converts data to a signal with embedded timing. In asynchronous usb, the audio file is transfered in little chunks of data to the usb receiver in the dac which then converts (emits) it to I2S within the dac. SPDIF requires a conversion from data (ie. what is on your harddisk) before the dac and then a re-conversion to I2S in the dac all of which affects the timing.

So far the install for me using OSX 10.6/Macbok 2.1Ghz Intel Core 2Duo is straightforward and works with iTunes. I installed on a fresh user account with only iTunes running and have experienced no problems.

If you are considering buying other software (such as Amarra, which seems to be able to coexist BTW), get the Hiface first and evaluate the Amarra only after that. No harm in Amarra. Just that Hiface is cheaper and not necessarily worse. Caveat: so far I have only really worked on Aiff 16/44 files since that is where most of my music collection exists.

Edit: Pretty responsive in terms of speedy updates too! New version announced: 1.03.2
Fixed crash due to surprise removal
Removed click during playback with OSX 10.6

Any additional inputs regarding my post?

"I only see good comments about Hiface. Did anyone here compare Hiface with Lynx AES16? I wonder if the difference in price justifies going to Lynx".

I am curious to see what the group thinks to decide my purchase.

Cheers,
Eduardo

I'm new to computer audio, and I'm hoping someone can help me get my new Hiface to work. I have it connected from a usb port on my computer to my DAC. I'm using Windows 7 32-bit and Windows Media Center - I know, I know, but I find it easier, as does the family (the computer also serves as a second home theater, performing TV and DVD duties).

Anyway, the M2Tech driver appeared to install properly, and the Hiface now appears properly in Device Manager. But I still have a red cross through the volume icon in the taskbar, and the message 'No Audio Output Device is installed'. No devices to select are listed in the audio options in the Control Panel, and there doesn't appear to be any way to force it to use the Hiface as an audio device.

What have I done wrong? I'm hoping this will be easy to fix.

After readings comments on M2Tech hiFace on another forum, I purchased one and received it about 3 weeks ago.

The Mac driver wasn't available then, and I set up on my Mac using Windows 7 under a Boot Camp partition on my MacBook Pro and using FooBar as the server software. I was initially very impressed with the sound quality.

Then the Mac OS driver Version 1.03 became available and I started using it with iTunes. I'm very impressed with the sound quality and I can control all my music through my iPhone using the Apple Remote application.

My DAC is the one built into the NaimUniti which I purchased earlier this year. Using this DAC, I've compared both CD quality and HD music on the hiFace with music directly into the NaimUniti network connection, music played through AppleTV, and have also compared CD quality with the Naim CD player. The hiFace is far better than the AppleTV connect to the NaimUniti with toslink and as good as or better than the other two methods.

The sort of differences I notice are the space around the instruments, the wide soundstage and the particularly the timing and low level detail ... and this applies to HD and CD quality music. Those who know Naim equipment will know it is great at conveying the timing of rhythms and this is not diminished at all by the hiFace, which seems to substantiate the claims made about the reduction of jitter.

I've been an analogue lover for years. I've had a Linn LP12 turntable since the 1980s. The hiFace is one the few pieces of equipment which has really allowed me to really warm to digital recordings and just enjoy the music without any feeling that I need to adjust the volume. It just sounds "right".

What I always liked about good vinyl was I would get so engrossed in the music I would not feel a need to make any adjustments. The hiFace has gone a long way to doing that for me with digital recordings and I have all the added convenience that I can control my music using my iPhone as a remote.

I've never heard my iTunes music sounding so good.

I save all my music in iTunes as WAV files for the greatest compatibility and sound quality and store them on an Iomega Home Media Network Storage drive.

Postscript:

I've just noticed that the Australian Distributor for this device has included a link to my comment here on their website. Perhaps it's only a coincidence, but they have also increased the price of the M2Tech hiFace from the A$179 that I paid for it, to A$199. It's still great value, and maybe I'm just a little cynical, but the way the Aussie dollar is going against the Euro, I don't think they hiFace would be costing them any more, just more in demand.

Hello,

I have been testing the Hiface driver for Mac, version 1.0.3.2, with different players (Cog, Play, Itunes, Amarra) and there is a persistent "click" every 10 to 20 seconds (more or less) during playback.

Does anybody experienced the same problem ?, it is really anoying !! (it will eventually crash my tweeters...)

On a more juicy side, I must say that in my setup, there is no appreciable difference in quility while playing with the "famous" Amarra and the humble "Cog". The Hiface is so good in High-res reproduction that the player you use seems to be less relevant.

best
Pepe

Hi
I have the same setup as you and my Hiface is working fine, no clicks just good music but only used iTunes for now.

I have the same problem on a 2.4GHz C2D MacBook Pro, "vinyl-like" clicks and pops all the time. I tried to run the laptop/DAC on battery, no help. It seems to me that it's related to CPU usage, but even on very low load (7-8%). Drop an email to their info@... address to let them know about the problem, I'll do too.

When I first used HiFace driver 1.0.2 for Windows with FooBar under Boot Camp I did notice some strange pops & pauses at times.

However, since the Mac drivers came out (now v 1.0.3.2) and I've been using iTunes I have not had any problems except a short pause in the music on two occasions in hours of listening. Those pauses were most likely due to other traffic on the home network.

I have a current model 15" Macbook Pro 2.53 GHz with OS X 10.6.2. I have had a mini-toslink connector in the audio out all the time I have been using the HiFace, but today I took that out just to see whether it made any difference.

The only suggestions I can give is that may be there is some other background process on your Mac that is causing the sounds, or possibly a faulty HiFace unit. Also I would disconnect any other USB devices just to make sure they are not causing the problem.

I have my HiFace connected directly to one of the 2 MacBook Pro USB sockets. It is a tight squeeze, but I'm using a powered Logitech USB hub on the other socket and that doesn't seem to cause any problems. That is one thing I really like about the HiFace is that it is plugs directly into the USB sockets, so USB cables don't play a part.

In my earlier post I failed to mention that I have compared the HiFace with digital out from the MacBook Pro to my NaimUnity DAC using a mini-toslink to toslink adapter. The HiFace is far superior, with much more space around the instruments. Everything sounds more real.

Another thing I really like about the HiFace with the Mac is that it works for all programs. For example, I can use it for EyeTV sound.

My limited experience with the HiFace under Windows 7/Boot Camp was that I could only get it working when playing tracks with FooBar, and that was a bit "patchy". The interface with the Mac seems much better … just select the device under sound output preferences.

Well, mixed results so far.

Got my hiFace today. Plugged it into my G5 (10.5.8) and loaded the newest 1.0.3 drivers. And that's about as far as I got, because it never appeared as an option in my System Preferences >> Sound >> Output, despite a couple of restarts, moving the hiFace through every USB input on the box as well as reloading the software, downgrading the software to 1.0.1 and finally reloading the newest drivers again with a restart for good measure.

By contrast, I plugged it into my MacBook Pro, loaded the latest drivers, and it immediately popped up in System Preferences >> Sound >> Output as soon as the driver finished installing.

I have an email into the M2Tech guys asking WTF. Anyway ....

Like I said, I had it up and running with my Pro. I plugged into a non-keyboard-used high speed USB port and connected my iTunes library via FW800. S/PDIF cable is a DH Labs (6m!) job I got special to run to the old G5 (nice cable, BTW).

Initial listening impressions lead me to believe that OOTB, the hiFace is at least as good as USB. But if it is better, it's not much. Of course, my cable is brand spanking new as is the hiFace, so neither have gone through any break in whatsoever.

I did notice some vinyl-esque pops and snaps, especially at the beginning of a newly selected track, but these seemed to subside (but not vanish) as the unit "warmed up" -- that is, after 10-15mins of use.

Verdict so far? "Whatever."

Two things -- 1, it has to work on my G5 or at the very least its going into a drawer; 2, RE: those snap, crackle & pops -- it has to sound better than my turntable playing vintage era discs, or [see #1].

So far, not encouraging.

Has anyone tried Hiface with Belkin Network USB Hub ? Or any other wireless USB hub? There about 10 feet between my laptop and the DAC. Wireless seems a neat solution.

I had the same problem with mine when I got it, I run W7 x64 and when I installed it everything went smooth and it said it was ready to be used. Next, I went to my software program (Media Monkey) and I use Kernel Streaming as my output and went to configure to choose the device to output and nothing shows up to select.

I struggled with this same thing for days and had emails to M2Tech and they said I did everything right and they didn't know what to tell me. For tickles and giggles even though there was nothing to select as an output device I just left it. I chose Kernel streaming as the output and hit play and it worked.

Give it a try and it might work like it did for me for me even though there's no device to select; it's there, granted the drivers installed correctly. I know it's weird and I don't know why it doesn't show up but if you do enough searching you will find that we are not the only ones that this happened to.

Good luck and as far as my experience goes, it IS FAR better than standard USB (haven't heard asynch USB like Ayre or Wavelength). Best $150 I ever spent!!!! Period!

Jeff

Has any of you with troubles with "clicking" with your HiFace tried to connect it via a powered USB hub - maybe there is an issue with the amount of power it's drawing from your USB port.

I've no idea if this is the case but may be worth trying.

Eloise

PS. only connect the HiFace to the hub, not any other device.

Wish I could, but Mac OS won't output to anything unless you select the target in System Preferences >> Sound >> Output.

Like I said, works fine ('fine' not 'great' b/c of all the "vinyl effects") on my Mac laptop (circa 2007), just not on my Mac desktop (circa 2003).

Might be time for a Mini. Or a Berkeley. :-)

I have a Mac Mini running 10.6 with Amarra and HiFace drivers 1.03.2 - feeding a Lavry DA10. The clicking seems to being after listening to several tracks and then continues. Just like vinyl :)

If I stop Amarra or iTunes and then restart, several more tracks tend to be clear. This leads me to suspect that the M2Tech folks still have a little more work to do on the driver.

That said, awesome product.

Richard

Doing some reading on their website -- seems there was some microcode issues on the early runs that have been subsequently cleared up. The fix? A new hiFace. Nice.

"Has anyone tried Hiface with Belkin Network USB Hub ? Or any other wireless USB hub? There about 10 feet between my laptop and the DAC. Wireless seems a neat solution."

I've tried the Belkin hub with a usb dac. It worked on my XP partition, but not on my OSX partition. It had some issues with ASIO4ALL in the XP side with Foobar and with cMP.

Scot,

Not sure this is what I'm seeing. No obvious clicks when I start / stop. More background clicks starting after a couple of tracks in.

I'm not sure how one determines whether a unit is an early one with old microcode or a later version as there is no S/N

Cheers

Richard

I think the current "vinyl effects" on OS X is different problem than the "early microcode" problems with Windows playback. They are working on this right now.

re Vinyl effects - great, I'll keep a watch on the M2 site.

Thanks

Richard