Best USB cable to use between computer and dac?

Hey Liz - Since you already have my opinion from my review of the Kimber USB cable I will post what Gordon Rankin from Wavelength Audio thinks about this topic. I think it's pretty good evidence that USB cables do matter.

"Look there are 2 cables inside a USB cable. There is the DATA differential pair that must be designed for traffic up to at least 12Mhz and the POWER cable which is VBUS 5V's and Ground.

I have like tons of cables now and some do sound different. But remember it will be device dependent.

All of the PCM27xx devices require VBUS to determine the computer is there. This means there is current running from the computer to the USB Device via the POWER side of the cable.

Other devices like the TAS1020 look for signal on the DATA portion of the cable only. Therefore the VBUS is not used and only the Ground connection on the POWER side is used.

On the DATA side termination on the Device side or endpoint will have an effect on transmissions. I usually get the 5M cables put them on a couple of computers with my USB analyzer on the DAC side and check for errors.

It's not suggested to use a 5M with streaming audio. These cables were meant for low speed devices. 2M and under for audio will make all the difference in the world.

With the POWER side being used it can bleed noise from the computer into the dac.

It would be nice if you could switch the VBUS signal on the computer side from VBUS to Ground if your device doesn't use it.

Anyways another thing about the POWER side of the cable is that noise from the computer can end up on the device. The cable should do all it can to make sure that doesn't happen.

It's best like all aspects of this hobby to try this stuff before you buy it.

Remember using these expensive cables on a hard drive is worthless they are in Block mode not Streaming and will not be effected by the use of costly cables.

Thanks
Gordon
J. Gordon Rankin "

Link to original comment on Audio Asylum.

I am told the Wireworld will be releasing a new USB cable. I am waiting to hear from them then I will post the info here.

Please clarify - the quality of the USB cable will affect the sound, but wired ethernet or WiFi will not? I don't want anyone to think that they are better off with ethernet or WiFi if that's not the case.

Hey there audiozorro - As long as the Ethernet cable is within spec and the wireless network is functioning normal they won't effect the sound.

I heard what people were saying but I didn’t understand exactly why. So I did some surfing and came across an interesting thread on the diyAudio forum labeled “Die SPDIF! - Design of the Ethernet DAC”. A lot of the discussion is above my level of expertise but the superior methods cited to connect the DAC to the computer are Firewire, USB 2, or Ethernet. Of these I guess I will take my cue from the audio pro equipment that have 24/192 and multi-channel capabilities I will assume that firewire is the best. Obviously this may be a simplification since, as usual, implementation is everything.

I heard from Wireworld. I was told their cable can exceed the 16 feet limit for USB, They claim the cable will work for 7 meters!

Thanks for the info Liz. This does sound cool, but i am skeptical about the length when it comes to audio reproduction. I hope someone around here picks one up and relays their opinion to us.

the Synergistic Research cable is quite impressive. Expensive, yes, but switching from the Kimber cable to the SR cable resulted in many improvements. It is a very good cable and given the good results, a reasonable investment IMO.

Good to hear sammie. Thanks for the honest opinion.

Are you using the Synergistic Research cable? The price is so overprice!

Hey Liz - Your opinion about the Synergistic USB cable seems to be a very common one. I've heard really good things about the cable, so I will hold off with my thoughts until I can spend some time with it.

I compared it directly to the Kimber cable and it offers vast improvements. The improvements justify the high price IMHO. Plus, I have spent much more on interconnects, so the price, while high, was not outlandish given my system.

Although I have not compared them directly, I have read that the Belkin Pro USB cable is a better cable sonically than the Kimber cable. So you might want to give the Belkin a try....

Good Luck!

Sammie,

May I ask that you please describe in detail, the differences you hear between these two cables?

Sound with Kimber was veiled in comparison to the Tricon. The music bloomed with the Tricon...everything -high's + lows- were much clearer. Individual instruments were cleaner. Overall significant improvement.

That's about the best I can do....If you need more info check here:
http://db.AudioAsylum.com/cgi/m.mpl?forum=pcaudio&n=28626&highlight=syne...

Hey guys - Thanks for keeping this discussion professional. I sensed it may get going in the wrong direction but as usual the CA readers pull through again.

Thanks you two!!

The Synergistic Research USB cable is excellent. Bigger, better defined soundstage with enhanced detail over the Kimber or Belkin models. Highly recommeded.

Which other cables did you compare this one to?

This is a cable that can be considered. Belkin PureAv is the company' premier line targeting AV that offers tremendous value for those seeking better than normal performance.

Here is a link for the the PureAV silver line USB cable:

http://catalog.belkin.com/PureAV_detail.process?Product_Id=200386#

I believe someone thought very highly of the Monster Digital Pro USB cable.

Here is the link:

http://www.monstercable.com/productdisplay.asp?pin=2906

Chris are you up to reviewing USB cables?

I reviewed the Kimber USB cable a while ago and have tried some misc. cables, but haven't spent much time on them recently. I'm looking into other interfaces at the moment.

Hi,

I do belive that USB cable does matter in terms of sounding. And I found this usb cable. Don't know if anyone in the forum tried this before ? But it is not a cheap cable anyway.

http://www.aqvox.de/cable.html

Regards!
Cowby

Hey thanks cowby. That looks like an interesting company as well.

I'm currently using a Toslink optical connection between my Mac Mini and Altmann Dac. Storage device is a Drobo and that's connected to the Mini with USB cable. Just wondering if that connection (Drobo to Mini) is as important sonically as the Mini to dac connection. Would a better quality USB cable between the Drobo and Mini improve the sound? I don't really understand the technology enough to know about the signal's vulnerabilities.

Hi turboglo - Don't waste your money on this specific connection. I don't believe there is sonic impact.

I just look for the shortest, most robust looking one with the thickest AWG rating and slap a couple of ferrites either end if it hasnt got them already.

I have been a USB DAC user for a couple of years now. I started with the Wavelength Cosecan V2 and a few months back upgraded to the MHDT Paradisea +. While comparing the 2 DACs I was using the cable that Gordon supplied with the Cosecant on the Cosecant and using a cheapie free lacie cord on the Paradisea. I eventually settled on replacing the Cosecant with the Paradisea. The real shock came when I replaced the USB cord that was on the Cosecant to the Paradisea. The difference between these two cords was HUGE, that I was able to choose the sound of the Paradisea over the Cosecant without this cord says a lot for the Paradisea.

I recently have been evaluating some USB cords from Ridge Street Audio Designs. They have the Poiema as well as a new one that they haven't officially released that uses two separate runs that terminate into the single USB connector. These cords definately offer up a different sound, not always better in every way, but they do sound different for sure.

Seems like this is just the beginning for USB cords and I'm sure we will see more of them comming to market in the future and there and there will be a lot more choices than there are now.

Not to beat a dead horse, but Chris, can you explain why there would not be a difference in sound quality between different USB cables between hard drive and computer, but there is a difference between computer and DAC?
Thanks.

I believe this is because of the way the data is transferred. Different modes of transfer may or may not be effected by the cable. I think Gordon has mentioned on the site before that the data is transferred in block mode from the hard drive so it doesn't matter what cable is used. If the cable mattered we would have to upgrade the internal cables in the computer as well. The SATA cables that connect the internal hard drive(s) to the motherboard would need to be swapped out. To the best of my knowledge this is not the case.

Transferring the music stream in different versions of ***synchronous mode via USB I believe is vastly different.

I'm certainly not an engineer so I'm open to all opinions on this one :-)

Chris - in theory, this is all true. Async and block modes should eliminate the need for a good USB cable. The reality is something else. Just read all the anecdotes.

Steve N.
Empirical Audio

Good to know Steve. Thanks for the info.

Turns out I had a brand new 10' Belkin USB cable lying around, so I've been doing a little experimenting. My preliminary conclusion is that there is an audible difference between USB cables connecting hard drives and computers. The cable I was using is the generic one that came with the Drobo. I think it's about 4'. I can't come to any definite conclusions as to which one will ultimately sound better because I suspect there's also going to be a break-in effect. Right now, the Belkin is not sounding as good as the standard. The performance is less palpable, everything is less analogue-sounding. This could be because it's a longer length or because it's brand new. But I can say that clearly the cables sound different.

System: Drobo > Mac Mini >Altmann Dac > Thor TA 1000 MKII pre > Art Audio Joto monos > Merlin VSM-MMe's

Just thought I'd share some info from Gordon on Belkin USB cables:

"I would not suggest the Belkin AV, not at all a good choice, there standard gold is much better. Putting ferrites on the cable actually causes protocol errors. We found this out with the more expensive Kimber. We cut the ferrites off and the errors went away. They are now offereing that cable without the ferrites."

I was extremely skeptical that a DAC USB cable could make a sonic different since it's in the digital realm. I believe it now after switching my Belkin cable with an "included with hardware" type of cable. You know what you're hearing is real when you forget you made a change to your system and a day later get fed up with the drop in sound quality and start messing with your system until you remember about the change you made. I'm still not convinced that a hard drive USB cable makes a difference though.

I doubted sound differences between USB cables for long. Nevertheless, I bought a Monster Digital USB Cable. It is this one: http://www.monstercable.com/productdisplay.asp?pin=2906. It seems to be manufactured very well - at least it looks like that from the outside.

I thought from the start, that if this cable would offer a sound difference the reason for it would be the power supply of my external sound interface. My old and my new interfaces are powered via the USB bus of my PC. The Monster comes (according to Monster) with a thicker internal power cable. So I thought, maybe I could reduce resistance that way.

Well, it did at least something to the sound. Room impression is better with it, also the bass. Highs are a bit softer, yet more precise. The most important thing is the improved timing. I think it only comes from thicker internal power cables. I tried it with my external USB DVD-drive and couldn´t find any improvement. Thank God Monster removed the hilarious claims they were doing 3 years ago. They wrote something like "make your pictures coming better out of the printer" or "improve pictures of your digital camera".

Now they are writing only about the things I experienced: powering up external sound devices.

Just a quick comment on the below. I have personally built USB cables longer than 25 feet that have "worked", however, the USB spec states a maximum of 5m. Up to what length cable can be used will depend greatly on the robustness of the receiving chip.

However, I personally don't recommend going much more than 15ft without an extender (Steve N. knows of a good one, maybe he can post the brand and model) and I have found (through exhaustive listening and the feedback from my customers) that the "sweet spot" is 3ft-7ft in length.

I don't hear a great difference between 7ft-15ft than between the 3ft-7ft'er, but on my control system the difference is there. Those with ultra high resolution systems will benefit from sticking between 3ft and 7ft, if possible.

Of course, all is IMHO, IMO, IME, FWIW, ABC, 123, ETC. I offer four models of USB cables for sale, including the Positive Feedback Brutus award winning Locus Design Polestar and its higher end brother the Axis, so perhaps I am biased.

Peace,

Lee

I heard from Wireworld. I was told their cable can exceed the 16 feet limit for USB, They claim the cable will work for 7 meters!

Greetings and thanks to all you have contributed to this post. I have already bought what I feel is the very best USB cable for sending digital over USB.

At long last, the DAC is ready for trial as only a few minor tasks remain. Those few tasks assuming the DAC is fine will be done in short time.

I have not used the cable yet and I will post my opinion soon. I can tell you that one on the true guru's on making USB Dacs, using this cable is his own system!

More to come.

Nice cable!

However, anyone care to explain excactly what - "Laser-controlled USB Extruder ensures cable delivers fastest data transfer above 400 Mbps." means????

I feel someone went a bit over the top here.

It´s only marketing gibberish, I think. Just a way to express, how sturdy, precise and well-built this cable is.

The reality is simple: it´s well built, but nothing better than any expensive cable from e.g. Belkin. So spending $ 35 on the cable is highly experimental :)

I´m glad I did.

I
I am currently using mini Mac as my source. I have ....
- $18k Stahl-Tek DAC
- Tara labs zero interconnect, omega speaker cables and cobalt power cords ($40k)
- Audion golden dreams 300b mono blocks ($18k)
- Audiomachina pure system aluminium speakers ($28k)

Originally, the mini mac was connected via Kimber cable to my system. Yesterday, I switched to Alethias Ridge Street USB. And my first impression was WOW!!! The piano and female voices became extremely accurate. I played
JUN FUKAMACHI/AT STEINWAY DXD CD. It was like virtually listening to the steinway in my house. The sound stage was wider and taller. The instruments become extremely accurate and tranparent. I could differentiate between the high-hat and the two left and right symbols with pinpoint placement, in the song misty from Tsuyoshi Yamamoto - Autumn In Seattle (XRCD).

Would definitely like to hear other stories from audiphiles using this configuration with there reference system.

Thanks for reading.

Ajay556, my first comment is also Wow!!! You spent $40K on interconnects, speaker cables and power cords? That seems out of balance with the rest of your system.

My second comment is why not a Reference Mac Pro or Windows PC music server with a Lynx AES16/16e card instead of the Mac Mini and USB? I have to believe the former will run circles around the latter. In addition, I assume the USB out of the Mac is only 24/96 max resolution, which I think means that audio files of greater resolution are downsampled only to possibly be upsampled later in your DAC.

Regardless, I’m thrilled that you’re enjoying your high quality music system.

Well i never mentioned how much i spent.
As for the Lynx vs USB.. have you tried A/B comparisons on 16 bit music?

All my music right now is 16 bit primarily because of the limited selection in high resolution music.

FYI...i compared my mini mac/DAC combo with the DCS puccini and wadia 7 series with SACD music. My dac combo was far better compared to both the cd players using SACDs.

Additionally, i compared a $15k preamp in my system versus $15k power cables. And hands down the power cables made a bigger diffrerence.

But i am definitely curious about using a MAC pro with Lynx. What cable are you using from the Lynx to your DAC?

Thanks

Take one normal USB cable and spend the change from the insanelyexpensive.com cable on some music.

Everything else is in the mind.

Yours, raking it in from duo-ferrite quasticore USB cables, tog

My experience has been that power cords can make a difference but power cords are more price independent than electronic system components. That is, the odds are much more likely that a $15k preamp is far superior to a $1k preamp than a $15k power cord is superior to a $1k power cord. Similarly I find it more likely that a $1k power cord can be superior to a $15k power cord than a $1k preamp will be superior to a $15k preamp. In addition, while some power cords can make a difference many more cords just sound the same.

I also find power cords to be component dependent than say interconnect cables, which I find to be component independent. Thus my choice power cord is different for my amp, preamp, cd player, DAC, and turntable. Whereas my interconnects and speaker cables are uniformly excellent. I generally recommend Anti-Cable interconnects and speaker cables for most people who do not want to spend thousands of dollars for cables. Your cables and cords are excellent and I also like some of the Cardas stuff.

As for the Lynx vs USB, I have tried comparisons on 16 bit music and I agree with the findings here that Chris reported on the Reference Music Servers. For me these are A/B comparisons of systems and not a A/B comparison of a single item. My Lynx is in a Windows PC using MediaMonkey and the stock Lynx AES cables, while I use my MacBook Pro laptop and iTunes with USB, firewire or toslink connections. Thus the hardware, software, drivers and cables are different and my goal was simple to determine the superior playback music server.

I believe the Chris has been working with some cable vendors and will make some recommendations for the Lynx card cables and will announce availabilities in the near future.

Hello Ajay,

I am so pleased that my posting about RSA USB cables haved helped you. I use the Poiema!!!! RV3 USB cable and will one day upgrade to the Alethias USB cable. This is no doubt that the RSA cables allow us computer USB guys to enjoy hearing music, not some processed crap.

I also have the XRC of Autumn in Seattle so I will listen to that tonight.

Liz

Hey Ajay!

Glad you're enjoying the Alethias! USB cable. Thanks also for posting those two pieces of music. I sampled both of them on Elusive Disk and they sound like they'd be excellent so I ordered both of them!

Cheers!

Robert
RSAD

PS. Chris: I accidentally Flaged Ajay's post. Please disregard that. Thanks.

"can you explain why there would not be a difference in sound quality between different USB cables between hard drive and computer, but there is a difference between computer and DAC?"

Easy. The interface between HD and computer does not transfer data real-time, so jitter is not important. Only error-free data transfer is required.

The computer to DAC interface on the other hand transfers data real-time, so jitter matters. The timing accuracy at the D/A converter chip is critical to reproducing the original sampled recording with the same accuracy as it was recorded. If the timing accuracy (jitter) is poor, then distortion will result.

Steve N.
Empirical Audio

Robert,

I want to try your Poiema or Alethias USB but my emails send to you are considered as spams !

Hi LC.

Sorry you're having problems emailing us. I don't know why this would be. I do not have any spam filters turned on anywhere. Maybe try again? ridgestreetaudio@comcast.net or call us: 219.324.2253

Hope to hear from you.

Robert
RSAD

Liz- I was also skeptical on USB cables as I am an electrical engineer and theoretically data transfer should not be effected by the wire however , I must say the KIMBER SILVER USB did make a marked improvement over the stock USB that came with my Benchmark DAC PRE HDR. The detail especially in the upper mid and treble has a little more sparkle that i was missing with the stock USB. I also added a little tweak applying some ferrite cores I had on both ends, the bottom line is limiting RFI/EMI and good ground path and noise separation . That I feel is what allows some micro dynamics to come thru on the audible side. Bottom line is for me at least this $125 cable upgrade made my listening more enjoyable, and at the end of the day that is really what this hobby is all about.

Summary: Better overall musical presentation, more decay and resonance around the instruments, sparkle on cymbals

system :
Dynaudio special 25s on brass tip toes/granite
Signal Cable silver rev speaker cable
McIntosh MC275 mk V w golden lion KT88's
Kimber Hero XLR
Benchmark DAC PRE HDR
Kimber Silver USB
MAC mini w Seagate 1.5TB hard drive ( files are all apple lossless & some 24/96WAV)
Wadia 170i
IPOD Touch w remote appl
Signal Cable power cables
APC conditioner

Super G:

When using USB, there is none better than the Ridge Street Audio Enopias USB cable.

I always find that if I spend a ridiculous amount of cash on the finest bolivian honey ...it always tastes better if think of the money whilst my paws are grasping the spoon. I think it may well apply to your cable as well since there doesn't appear to be any scientific basis for the improvements.

You might just want it to sound better ....

yours, enjoying the honey, tog