Hi VT Skier - I most certainly do have plans to review the Ayre QB-9. According to Ayre I am on the "Top of the list" to get a review unit as soon as they are available.
I know there's no magic box, but wouldn't it be great to have a DAC that works well with computers, CD players and other sources as well as the iPod (Wadia i170 for now, even with all the jitter)? I'm planning on taking your recommendation and buying the Bryston, unless you fall in love with the Ayre or something from Bel Canto. The Berkeley is a little too rich for me.
Or money no object, some used Linn DS dacs like the Klimax or Akruate are coming up for sale. It is not a USB dac but still about the only other computer approach that has close to no jitter.
I've decided to bite the bullet and get the Bryston DAC rather than wait for your thoughts on the QB-9. Can't believe the Ayre will be that much better, so ...
I'll use the Bryston primarily with my stereo system, but it would be nice to use with my IBM laptop when traveling. Would I need a PCMCIA soundcard too, or can I just use a USB cable to the laptop? If soundcard, I was thinking about the E-Mu 0404 unless you've found something better. My Audigy 2 ZS card on our old laptop recently suffered mortal wounds from a fall.
I personally would wait for the Ayre. I believe the Bryston uses an inferior USB data chip, and it does not use asynchronous transfer like the Ayre. These two factors probably put the Ayre in a different league.
Based on what I have read so far, this could be promising. I am hoping to upgrade my Rotel RCD-1072, and also plug in my Sony Blu-Ray player's optical out (to solve a ground loop issue) to the new Ayre DAC. Would like to hear from anyone who had experience with Rotel, and what they have upgrade to...
Hi VT Skier - No sound card needed if you're going to connect via USB. The eternal DAC becomes your "soundcard."
The Bryston and the Ayre are very different DACs. Make sure you think about your main use and what interfaces you'll use most etc... They have vastly different features and technologies.
Thanks everyone, I'm putting away my wallet for now and waiting to hear Chris's verdict on the Ayre, particularly as compared to the Bryston he liked so much.
My main use for an external DAC will be for my stereo system's CD/SACD player, but wouldn't it be great if that DAC was small enough, and had a great USB interface, so that it could also be used with a laptop for occasional travel use?
Thanks for the advice on not needing the soundcard -- I'll take that $200 (I was thinking EMU 0404) and use that for the DAC purchase. The recent Stereophile review of the Bel Canto USB 24/96 started all of this.
Hi everyone, I am a new member, having lurked in the corners for awhile I have decided to join the fun. I own an AV business and have championed computer music for several years now. We are expecting our first Ayre QB9 this week and will introduce it to the public this Saturday. I can post more details if it is allowed, anyone wishing to join us this weekend is welcomed. My expectations for this sweetie is sky high! Asynchronous USB for vanishing jitter, no negative feedback audio ciruitry and minimum phase digital filters are technologies discussed on Ayre's website but what has me really stoked is this will be the first source component applying their equilock circuit topology which was introduced in the MXR and KXR reference pre and power. Ultimately the true test is in the listening and we will be logging mucho hours this week. I would love to share my experiences, of course within forum guidelines.
Where are you located? Do you have more on the specs of the unit??
Thanks
vortecjr
__________________
Sonore player w/Vortexbox engine -> Playback controlled from any browser with Vortexbox web interface -> no mouse, no keyboard, no monitor, no configuration -> Lynx AES16/Firewire into Weiss Minerva -> Rotel and B&W system
Hi Vortecjr,
This is in Tampa, Fl 10 am to 6 pm this Saturday http://www.avsouth.com
for more info.
Ayre has good info on their site http://www.ayre.com/pdf/Ayre_USB_DAC_White_Paper.pdf http://www.ayre.com/pdf/Ayre_MP_White_Paper.pdf
In addition we have been getting technical info from Steve at Ayre. The equilock circuit is not discussed in relation to the QB9 but the circuit has been written up by Wes in Stereophile. We will insert the QB9 into a system with their KXR,MXR, Mac Mini, Wilson speakers and Transparent cabling. I will post progress reports.
AVSGSLIU, my friend has been to your store and bought Ayre products. He speaks very highly of you! I would try to make it, but I am not sure it will be possible. Sorry
Dare I ask if you are going to use I-tunes? If you are....what are you doing about itunes truncating to 16bit. I know about the MAX plug in fix and I believe it has problems with the Reference Recording files in 24/176.4.
Regards
vortecjr
__________________
Sonore player w/Vortexbox engine -> Playback controlled from any browser with Vortexbox web interface -> no mouse, no keyboard, no monitor, no configuration -> Lynx AES16/Firewire into Weiss Minerva -> Rotel and B&W system
Hi vortecjr - All of my research indicates that iTunes does NOT truncate to 16 bits. This is actually the first time I've ever heard this statement. DO you have any details? I'd really like to know more about this or where you heard this etc...
Chris, I think ;) you said this on Thu, 01/29/2009,
"Hi Merlocpm - Excellent question. If you're converting 24 bit content then MAX is what you'll want to use. I believe iTunes converts 24 to 16 bit as part of the conversion WAV to AIFF. But, if you are converting 16 bit material then I recommend iTunes if that's your final destination."
Sorry, I have a good memory, but not sure using you really really counts as a source as your not on board with me today and you were talking about wav to aiff conversion only. I'lllllllll let you slide.
However, as of last week or so the Benchmark Media wiki page only talked about itunes 6x (I should have stated that - may bad) and they reported and still report that it (itunes version 6x), "Truncates all Word-length to 16-bit".
Now, I just checked again after your reply and some info on 7x has been added. Not sure when it was added. I know I check it often for this reason. The bottom of the page says last updated June 2008....so I might be going crazy! They do say itunes 7x is ok for 24 bit.
PS I am getting blasted on this so some more comments:
Chris, davidR has heard of the problem as well:
"vortecjr, do you mind elaborating on the MAX plugin fix? I-tunes truncationhas really bugged me for awhile.__________________david is hear" Its not just me....thank god!
AVSGSLIU, looks like Itunes 6x will play the files, but will also truncate to 16 when doing so. 7x ok for 24bit. What are you using?
Chris, I have a new respect for how much work this is...are you hiring?
Regards
vortecjr
__________________
Sonore player w/Vortexbox engine -> Playback controlled from any browser with Vortexbox web interface -> no mouse, no keyboard, no monitor, no configuration -> Lynx AES16/Firewire into Weiss Minerva -> Rotel and B&W system
Hi vortecjr - Love the post! In my haste and in the middle of planning "something big" I posted an answer to what I thought was the question! For some reason I thought we were talking about playback only which iTunes can easily handle at 24 bit. But, I must have missed the boat on the real conversation :~) iTunes conversion to AIFF is very limited and will cut off 8 bits from 24 down to 16. Max is definitely the way to go.
It's almost 1:00 AM here in Minneapolis. I'm calling it a day. I'll be back on the site and working on stuff behind the scenes in about five hours :~(
"Chris, I have a new respect for how much work this is...are you hiring?"
Not that the diversions aren't interesting. And informative.
It looks like the Ayre is computer only, offering just a USB input and nothing else. Which is pretty much a deal breaker for me. Even if it's "better" than the Bryston, I'd like to have a DAC that works with my stereo too, so I think I'll get the Bryston.
Jon, this has been a concern of mine as well. I appreciate the reason for the single usb input, to maximize performance by keeping noise pollution to a minimum, but many users will need more flexibility. I have ordered a M-audio fast track pro which provides spdif and analog audio inputs for pc or mac. It specifies 24/96 capability in a 2x2 matrix configuration. I will be happy to share my experience next week. Our QB9 arrives tomorrow and I will post my initial impressions.
When Charlie and I first talked about the USB DAC a long time ago we both felt that SPDIF had it's day. USB just had so much going for it because for the first time instead of fixing the jitter, we were able to make sure the jitter wasn't there in the first place.
~~~~~~~
Now if you want SPDIF inputs this is what I suggest. Put them into your computer... That's right a user the other day wanted a SPDIF from his sat system. I said well just put it into the toslink input on your MAC mini then USB to your DAC as you have it now and then you can select that input into the system mixer and there you have. You have all the benefits of the USB DAC for ultra high end output and when you want it select the SPDIF input.
Guys remember this is computer audio... there are more ways to skin a cat than you can think of.
The QB-9 is slated to be Ayre's top dog for about half the cost of their universal player. So to me it’s also about value in this case. Why should the QB-9 have any input that would in any way diminish what Ayre is trying to achieve. I am not trying to be critical of anyone’s needs, but you have to respect what Charlie and Gordon are to do.
I can’t afford the QB-9, so I am between the Wavelength Proton and the Bel Canto USB Link. I am leaning toward the Proton as I feel that adding the spdif from the Link will introduce jitter (10 sets forward and 5 steps backwards).
regards
vortecjr
__________________
Sonore player w/Vortexbox engine -> Playback controlled from any browser with Vortexbox web interface -> no mouse, no keyboard, no monitor, no configuration -> Lynx AES16/Firewire into Weiss Minerva -> Rotel and B&W system
Chris I hope you get your review unit soon. Our QB9 came in Friday morning and we installed it with our Ayre KXR preamp and MXR mono amps with Wilson Sophia speakers with Transparent and Ridge Street Audio cabling. Files were served by a Mac mini and controlled by an i touch. Initial impressions were very good especially considering the lack of warm up time and time for settling in. Most audio files were ripped from CD but we had 24/96 files from Linn, Audiophile Jazz profile, and vinyl conversion from a Sumiko USB Phono. We rebooted I tunes when changing sample rates. We had an Ayre C5xemp in the system and felt it was superior on Friday. The system was left on repeat cycle onernite. By Saturday morniing dramatic changes occured. For those who have heard the MP filter update for the C5xemp, you will agree that a significant hurdle in digital sound quality has been conquered. Fleshy and visceral are the best adjectives to describe the improvements. By Saturday the QB9 was "more of everything good" than any other digital device we have ever heard. We had a continuous stream of about 40 friends and customers listening and agreeing that 'it sounded like great analog" or had "3D tube like imaging". We did structured AB testing between USB cables, Itunes 44.1 vs upsampling to 88.2 or 96, again rebooting itunes after each sample rate change, various sample rates for vinyl conversion files from a USB phono, and finally various different digital sources. We discovered that it was best to send a file in it's native sample rate to the QB9 to allow the Ayre to process the signal as opposed to the src of the computer. The expensive Ridge Street Alethias USB cable was judged to be a " no brainer" and indispensible to the pursuit of reference levels of reproduction. Current judgement on the QB9 can be summarized as a breakthrough revelation. We expect it to get better as all Ayre products need an extended break in time frame. Pictures and additional details are available upon request.
I hope everyone that attended enjoyed it as much as we did hosting the event. I urge all to seek an audition whether you are in the market or not. It's just too much fun to ignore!!!!
Firstly, thanks to everyone for the information. This thread/site has been extremely helpful in my research for the source upgrade/replacement.
Just wanted to share my current setup and my need for upgrade (as it relates to QB-9).
A. For Redbook CD music -- Quad 988, conrad-johnson CT6 tube preamp, conrad-johnson MV60 tubeamp, and slowly looking to upgrade Rotel RCD-1072 redbook player (retail $700).
B. For blu-ray/DVD movies -- Sony blu-ray BDP-S550 which has RCA outputs to CT6 preamp. (On a side note, my digital cable line is a source of ground loop, and I have to plug in my HDTV and conrad-johnson MV60 amp in the same wall outlet to keep the humming noise down to an acceptable level. I've already tried coax cable Isolators w/o success).
C. For High-Rez music and On-demand movies from the internet (e.g. Netflix) -- I recently ordered a new Levono laptop (with HDMI output but no Blu-ray) which I plan to use for viewing Netflix movies on my HDTV (hdmi) and audio output to my Quads via headphone jack to CT6 preamp. [I am assuming I can use the USB output to Ayre QB-9 for this]
For my source upgrade, I have the following objectives: sound performance comparable to Ayre CX-7e (I haven't heard this CD player, however, based on the professional reviews that I have read, this is my budget for comparison). Also based on what I have read about Ayre QB-9, I thought it was going to be my one-stop solution for all (except for world peace). Using the optical audio output from the blu-ray player to a DAC would also solve my ground loop problem. Without this input, QB-9 only solves 2 out of 3 requirements.
Would like to hear others view on my situation if I missed anything or if anyone has a different perspective. Thanks.
CA buddy,
A. Not sure if you mean you want to buy more from Rotel. Anyway, I own and really like Rotel for its value and sound. I have the rcc-1050 chager, but i find myself using my Rotel rdv-1092 (now its called rdv-1093) most of the time. Its a great cd player and dvd-audio player in one. Something to consider for around 1300 bucks. Oh yeah it upsamples dvd as well and you get hdmi out.
I have been taking my hi res files and making them dvd-audio with dvd-solo and playing it back on my rdv...wow! and its simple!
B. My audio friend has the Sony BDP-S5000ES (the cream of the crop) and it's analog out is not great. Don't expect much out of the BDP-550 in analog. Pic and hd audio via hdmi should be good. ps sounds like you need a line conditioner and a dedicated power outlet direct from the panel ;) Its the only way to fly!
C. Hi res music on laptop =yes. Movies on laptop to htdv = hit or miss. The hdmi may not work right with larger tvs. If it does let me know. Most laptops have lite weight on board video cards unlike towers where the sky is the limit? Headphone jack to anything = forget it thats junk and an old trick :(
USB output to Ayre QB-9 = bliss! My contact at the audio store has heard it and he is impressed and he is not easy to impress.
D. My audio friend has the Ayre CX-7e along with the Ayre pre and amp. Its incredible! Buy it, but keep in mind the jump from Rotel is big and so are the upgrades. My opiniion, if your going to do this you are going to need the works....better everything (interconnects, power cables, speaker wires, power conditioners). PS the Ayre CX-7e has an upgrade for a few bucks (makes it even better).
The QB-9 is not a DAC its a USB player/source with a DAC. Ayre doesn't make a DAC they incorporate the it into the source. Its the way they do things and a good way to do things.
Just my thoughts....
Regards
vortecjr
__________________
Sonore player w/Vortexbox engine -> Playback controlled from any browser with Vortexbox web interface -> no mouse, no keyboard, no monitor, no configuration -> Lynx AES16/Firewire into Weiss Minerva -> Rotel and B&W system
I was at AV South's demo yesterday and can certainly agree. The entire room was nothing short of stunning! It had dynamics and soundstaging to die for :) Imaging was very good although the speakers were a bit far apart for my taste but I understand pulling them out further to try and make them sound good for the whole room. I cannot isolate the exact benefit of the Ayre DAC but I can tell you that there was certainly nothing lacking anywhere in the audio chain. And the bass from the Sophia 2's was beyond subwoofer levels; punched in the chest from anywhere in the room.
I would love to go back to AV South and compare my Weiss DAC2 with the Ayre. I spoke with Dave a bit about this and he seemed quite interested. I think that would be very cool. But anyone thinking about the Ayre DAC from what I heard yesterday it is a no-brainer at its price.
Sonore player w/Vortexbox engine -> Playback controlled from any browser with Vortexbox web interface -> no mouse, no keyboard, no monitor, no configuration -> Lynx AES16/Firewire into Weiss Minerva -> Rotel and B&W system
When will the QB9 available in France?
I would be curious to read from people having compared QB9 and top wavelength dacs?
I wish I could visit your store in Florida...
Regarding USB cable: my recent purchase of a Ridge Street Poiema USB has brought a wonderful improvement to my music despite the fact that my dac is a modest Dacmagic (hence the interest for QB9 or Brick or Proton)
Would it be possible for someone to do a musicality ranking of the popular usb dacs: Chris si doing so few reviews of dacs?
__________________
macbook/ridge street usb/dacmagic-/Leben CS300XS/audio exklusiv PS3 www.bluedy.com
Stik, Gordon has said that you can use a toslink input on your computer from the Blu-Ray player and output through the USB DAC such as the Ayre. If you don't have a toslink input on your laptop you can buy an add-on card that will provide one.
Does the QB-9 have balanced outs? More importantly, does it have a volume control? I've come to love the idea of connecting DACs directly to my amps. I'm doing this now with my ModWright Transporter, and the results are great.
Hi gregeasley,
The QB9 has a truly balance out circuit. No volume controll and only a usb input. A pc/mac may provide additional inputs and the M-audio Fastrack pro can add a 4x4 matrix switcher with analog and spdif to your pc/mac. It is bundled with Ableton Live Lite software which will give you a high quality input gain/ output controll. Not the most convenient solution but perhaps a viable compromise for the performance levels achieved. The M-audio arrives this week and I will post my initial impressions.
I noticed some comments on Wav to AIFF above. Anyone know if FLAC support 24/96? I have used .ape to support lossless compression/playback of 24/96 (I think I have even done 32/96).
RYDENFAN - I'm in Tampa. Are you a member of the TBLS? I plan on getting a Proton soon, and I'd love to hear your Weiss DAC2 sometime! Give me a shout sometime.
hifitubes
__________________
MC14 > Lynx AES16 clocked to BLA "Macroclock" > ??? > Decware Mini-Torii > Omega 3i/Deep Hemp
I've had a QB-9 in my desktop system for just under a week now and am very impressed with it. It's replacing an Apogee Duet (which, incidentally, I still think is probably the single best value source out there for Mac users) and manages to be a big step up over a very competent predecessor. I've always been a bit of a FireWire fetishist, so this is a step toward the dark side for me! As such, I look forward to hearing your thoughts on the Ayre versus the Weiss, rydenfan.
Anyway, I agree with the gentleman from AV South that the QB-9 has an appealing, natural presentation. Detail retrieval is excellent, but not to the point of making things cool and clinical. Dynamics and bass response, particularly, are in another class from the Duet. I'm primarily a headphone and nearfield monitor listener, but even so it's clear the Ayre projects a much more open sound stage.
As far as operation goes, setup was plug-and-play simple and the QB-9 has worked without a hitch so far with material at sample rates ranging from 44.1kHz to 96kHz. I would certainly second the opinion already expressed that it sounds far better with 44.1kHz files fed at their native rate rather than upsampled in iTunes to 96kHz. This means some futzing with Audio Midi on my Mac when going back and forth from my stock of hi-resolution material, which is a pain but hardly Ayre's fault. Please, please will someone write a native-rate plugin for iTunes? ;)
In a week of intensive use, I have heard no hint of system noise or RF interference. Nor have I been able to force a dropout in the USB connection, despite trying hard to do so. Kudos to Gordon Rankin for all his hard work on the asynchronous USB transfer protocol and I hope that Wavelength and Ayre will be able to add 24/192 support to the TAS1020B code down the line, as they've both suggested in the past.
All in all, I may well still be in the grip of "new owner syndrome", but I do think the QB-9 is a product that could do a lot to put to rest the computer-audio stigma amongst audiophiles. Or at least the more open-minded section of the tribe. I'll be very interested to hear what you think of it, Chris.
I know this is sometimes difficult to do but, when reviewing the QB-9 could you perhaps do some comparative references to some other know dac's like the Berkley Alpha, Wavelength Crimson, and even the Linn Klimax DS if at all possible. I was curious if this might be in the same league?
On a side note, If using a P.C. and say Foobar with Secret Rabbit Code up sampler, how does it sound?
Thanks for the informative review. I'm anxious to get into computer audio. However, I can probably only afford to do it once so I will probably wait for 192 even though I am missing out for the time being.
It would be nice to know, when the time comes, if there was an upgrade path for Ayre or Wavelength that's less expensive that buying a new unit. Though I realize that big changes can happen it a year in DAC design. Sometimes complete redesign.
From what I gather, the TAS1020B may not work for 24/192 but Gordon mentioned there many other chips that are up to the task. So I would only expect this to get better as time goes on. I
Correct the TAS1020B cannot do anything higher than 24/96. Actually USB Class 1 is limited to 1023 bytes per frame. With 24/96 that requires 576 bytes per frame. If we double that you can see it will not work.
With Class 2 Audio (not to be confused with USB 2.0 but it does require High Speed 480Mhz) we can litterally do 24 channels at 192.
Two problems...
1) Windows and Linux do not support Class 2 Audio.
2) There are actually very few chips optimized for USB and I2S. While we are looking at two of these right now it will be a while before anything becomes of it.
Really though no need to wait. Ayre and Wavelength have a similar upgrade policy. When you make an investment it's really up to us to make sure you are happy long term.
Is there any indication that Audio Class 2 will eventually be supported in Windows 7? Not that I care specifically, being in the Mac camp, but obviously that's going to be a key factor in determining if the avenue is worth pursuing for you.
I really like the Ayre DAC and the asynchronous USB implementation has just been rock solid. Thanks for all your hard work making it possible!
Sonore player w/Vortexbox engine -> Playback controlled from any browser with Vortexbox web interface -> no mouse, no keyboard, no monitor, no configuration -> Lynx AES16/Firewire into Weiss Minerva -> Rotel and B&W system
Joined: 11/28/2007 .:. Offline .:. Comments: 5598
Hi VT Skier - I most
Hi VT Skier - I most certainly do have plans to review the Ayre QB-9. According to Ayre I am on the "Top of the list" to get a review unit as soon as they are available.
Chris Connaker
Founder
Computer Audiophile
Joined: 03/01/2009 .:. Offline .:. Comments: 31
That's so great, thank you.
That's so great, thank you.
I know there's no magic box, but wouldn't it be great to have a DAC that works well with computers, CD players and other sources as well as the iPod (Wadia i170 for now, even with all the jitter)? I'm planning on taking your recommendation and buying the Bryston, unless you fall in love with the Ayre or something from Bel Canto. The Berkeley is a little too rich for me.
Jon
Joined: 04/06/2009 .:. Offline .:. Comments: 2
Don't forget the Linn DS
Or money no object, some used Linn DS dacs like the Klimax or Akruate are coming up for sale. It is not a USB dac but still about the only other computer approach that has close to no jitter.
Joined: 04/15/2009 .:. Offline .:. Comments: 6
Ayre QB-9 Updates
Anyone hear about any updated Ayre QB-9 information? Pricing or availability?
Joined: 03/01/2009 .:. Offline .:. Comments: 31
Chris, I've decided to bite
Chris,
I've decided to bite the bullet and get the Bryston DAC rather than wait for your thoughts on the QB-9. Can't believe the Ayre will be that much better, so ...
I'll use the Bryston primarily with my stereo system, but it would be nice to use with my IBM laptop when traveling. Would I need a PCMCIA soundcard too, or can I just use a USB cable to the laptop? If soundcard, I was thinking about the E-Mu 0404 unless you've found something better. My Audigy 2 ZS card on our old laptop recently suffered mortal wounds from a fall.
Jon
Joined: 11/15/2008 .:. Offline .:. Comments: 52
...
I personally would wait for the Ayre. I believe the Bryston uses an inferior USB data chip, and it does not use asynchronous transfer like the Ayre. These two factors probably put the Ayre in a different league.
Joined: 10/30/2008 .:. Offline .:. Comments: 270
I agree with serengeti.
I agree with serengeti. The USB implementation is why folks are avidly waiting for the Ayre.
david is hear
Joined: 03/21/2009 .:. Offline .:. Comments: 2
Also waiting for reviews on the AYRE QB-9
Based on what I have read so far, this could be promising. I am hoping to upgrade my Rotel RCD-1072, and also plug in my Sony Blu-Ray player's optical out (to solve a ground loop issue) to the new Ayre DAC. Would like to hear from anyone who had experience with Rotel, and what they have upgrade to...
Joined: 04/15/2009 .:. Offline .:. Comments: 6
AYRE QB-9 and other goodness
Yep, eager to see the AYRE QB-9 reports when in the hands of users.
Another to keep an eye on PS Audio PerfectWave DAC
http://www.psaudio.com/ps/products/detail/perfectwave-dac
The idea of the network bridge is sparking my interest along with general specs.
Even as basic as my current music server system is I am loving it. Looking forward to upcoming products.
Joined: 11/28/2007 .:. Offline .:. Comments: 5598
Hi VT Skier - No sound card
Hi VT Skier - No sound card needed if you're going to connect via USB. The eternal DAC becomes your "soundcard."
The Bryston and the Ayre are very different DACs. Make sure you think about your main use and what interfaces you'll use most etc... They have vastly different features and technologies.
Chris Connaker
Founder
Computer Audiophile
Joined: 03/01/2009 .:. Offline .:. Comments: 31
Thanks everyone, I'm putting
Thanks everyone, I'm putting away my wallet for now and waiting to hear Chris's verdict on the Ayre, particularly as compared to the Bryston he liked so much.
My main use for an external DAC will be for my stereo system's CD/SACD player, but wouldn't it be great if that DAC was small enough, and had a great USB interface, so that it could also be used with a laptop for occasional travel use?
Thanks for the advice on not needing the soundcard -- I'll take that $200 (I was thinking EMU 0404) and use that for the DAC purchase. The recent Stereophile review of the Bel Canto USB 24/96 started all of this.
Joined: 04/19/2009 .:. Offline .:. Comments: 8
Ayre QB9
Hi everyone, I am a new member, having lurked in the corners for awhile I have decided to join the fun. I own an AV business and have championed computer music for several years now. We are expecting our first Ayre QB9 this week and will introduce it to the public this Saturday. I can post more details if it is allowed, anyone wishing to join us this weekend is welcomed. My expectations for this sweetie is sky high! Asynchronous USB for vanishing jitter, no negative feedback audio ciruitry and minimum phase digital filters are technologies discussed on Ayre's website but what has me really stoked is this will be the first source component applying their equilock circuit topology which was introduced in the MXR and KXR reference pre and power. Ultimately the true test is in the listening and we will be logging mucho hours this week. I would love to share my experiences, of course within forum guidelines.
Joined: 04/18/2009 .:. Offline .:. Comments: 664
saturday test
Where are you located? Do you have more on the specs of the unit??
Thanks
vortecjr
Sonore player w/Vortexbox engine -> Playback controlled from any browser with Vortexbox web interface -> no mouse, no keyboard, no monitor, no configuration -> Lynx AES16/Firewire into Weiss Minerva -> Rotel and B&W system
Joined: 04/19/2009 .:. Offline .:. Comments: 8
Ayre QB9
Hi Vortecjr,
This is in Tampa, Fl 10 am to 6 pm this Saturday
http://www.avsouth.com
for more info.
Ayre has good info on their site http://www.ayre.com/pdf/Ayre_USB_DAC_White_Paper.pdf
http://www.ayre.com/pdf/Ayre_MP_White_Paper.pdf
In addition we have been getting technical info from Steve at Ayre. The equilock circuit is not discussed in relation to the QB9 but the circuit has been written up by Wes in Stereophile. We will insert the QB9 into a system with their KXR,MXR, Mac Mini, Wilson speakers and Transparent cabling. I will post progress reports.
Joined: 04/18/2009 .:. Offline .:. Comments: 664
saturday test
AVSGSLIU, my friend has been to your store and bought Ayre products. He speaks very highly of you! I would try to make it, but I am not sure it will be possible. Sorry
Dare I ask if you are going to use I-tunes? If you are....what are you doing about itunes truncating to 16bit. I know about the MAX plug in fix and I believe it has problems with the Reference Recording files in 24/176.4.
Regards
vortecjr
Sonore player w/Vortexbox engine -> Playback controlled from any browser with Vortexbox web interface -> no mouse, no keyboard, no monitor, no configuration -> Lynx AES16/Firewire into Weiss Minerva -> Rotel and B&W system
Joined: 10/30/2008 .:. Offline .:. Comments: 270
vortecjr, do you mind
vortecjr, do you mind elaborating on the MAX plugin fix? I-tunes truncation has really bugged me for awhile.
david is hear
Joined: 11/28/2007 .:. Offline .:. Comments: 5598
Hi vortecjr - All of my
Hi vortecjr - All of my research indicates that iTunes does NOT truncate to 16 bits. This is actually the first time I've ever heard this statement. DO you have any details? I'd really like to know more about this or where you heard this etc...
Thanks vortecjr!
Chris Connaker
Founder
Computer Audiophile
Joined: 04/19/2009 .:. Offline .:. Comments: 8
Ayre QB9
My experience with Itunes is it will recognize and play back high resolution files from Linn downloads in aiff format without truncation.
Joined: 04/18/2009 .:. Offline .:. Comments: 664
aaaaaaaaaaaaaa well aaaaaaaaa huh huh huh
Chris, I think ;) you said this on Thu, 01/29/2009,
"Hi Merlocpm - Excellent question. If you're converting 24 bit content then MAX is what you'll want to use. I believe iTunes converts 24 to 16 bit as part of the conversion WAV to AIFF. But, if you are converting 16 bit material then I recommend iTunes if that's your final destination."
Sorry, I have a good memory, but not sure using you really really counts as a source as your not on board with me today and you were talking about wav to aiff conversion only. I'lllllllll let you slide.
However, as of last week or so the Benchmark Media wiki page only talked about itunes 6x (I should have stated that - may bad) and they reported and still report that it (itunes version 6x), "Truncates all Word-length to 16-bit".
Now, I just checked again after your reply and some info on 7x has been added. Not sure when it was added. I know I check it often for this reason. The bottom of the page says last updated June 2008....so I might be going crazy! They do say itunes 7x is ok for 24 bit.
This is the link:
http://benchmarkmedia.com/wiki/index.php/ITunes-QuickTime_for_Mac_-_Setu...
PS I am getting blasted on this so some more comments:
Chris, davidR has heard of the problem as well:
"vortecjr, do you mind elaborating on the MAX plugin fix? I-tunes truncationhas really bugged me for awhile.__________________david is hear" Its not just me....thank god!
AVSGSLIU, looks like Itunes 6x will play the files, but will also truncate to 16 when doing so. 7x ok for 24bit. What are you using?
Chris, I have a new respect for how much work this is...are you hiring?
Regards
vortecjr
Sonore player w/Vortexbox engine -> Playback controlled from any browser with Vortexbox web interface -> no mouse, no keyboard, no monitor, no configuration -> Lynx AES16/Firewire into Weiss Minerva -> Rotel and B&W system
Joined: 11/28/2007 .:. Offline .:. Comments: 5598
Hi vortecjr - Love the post!
Hi vortecjr - Love the post! In my haste and in the middle of planning "something big" I posted an answer to what I thought was the question! For some reason I thought we were talking about playback only which iTunes can easily handle at 24 bit. But, I must have missed the boat on the real conversation :~) iTunes conversion to AIFF is very limited and will cut off 8 bits from 24 down to 16. Max is definitely the way to go.
It's almost 1:00 AM here in Minneapolis. I'm calling it a day. I'll be back on the site and working on stuff behind the scenes in about five hours :~(
"Chris, I have a new respect for how much work this is...are you hiring?"
I wish I was hiring!
Chris Connaker
Founder
Computer Audiophile
Joined: 03/01/2009 .:. Offline .:. Comments: 31
Back to the original topic
Not that the diversions aren't interesting. And informative.
It looks like the Ayre is computer only, offering just a USB input and nothing else. Which is pretty much a deal breaker for me. Even if it's "better" than the Bryston, I'd like to have a DAC that works with my stereo too, so I think I'll get the Bryston.
Jon
Joined: 04/19/2009 .:. Offline .:. Comments: 8
ayre qb9
Jon, this has been a concern of mine as well. I appreciate the reason for the single usb input, to maximize performance by keeping noise pollution to a minimum, but many users will need more flexibility. I have ordered a M-audio fast track pro which provides spdif and analog audio inputs for pc or mac. It specifies 24/96 capability in a 2x2 matrix configuration. I will be happy to share my experience next week. Our QB9 arrives tomorrow and I will post my initial impressions.
George
Joined: 12/10/2007 .:. Offline .:. Comments: 385
Guys, When Charlie and I
Guys,
When Charlie and I first talked about the USB DAC a long time ago we both felt that SPDIF had it's day. USB just had so much going for it because for the first time instead of fixing the jitter, we were able to make sure the jitter wasn't there in the first place.
~~~~~~~
Now if you want SPDIF inputs this is what I suggest. Put them into your computer... That's right a user the other day wanted a SPDIF from his sat system. I said well just put it into the toslink input on your MAC mini then USB to your DAC as you have it now and then you can select that input into the system mixer and there you have. You have all the benefits of the USB DAC for ultra high end output and when you want it select the SPDIF input.
Guys remember this is computer audio... there are more ways to skin a cat than you can think of.
Thanks
Gordon
J. Gordon Rankin
~~~~~~~~~~
Wavelength Audio
http://www.usbdacs.com/
http://www.wavelengthaudio.com/
http://www.guitar-engines.com/
Joined: 04/18/2009 .:. Offline .:. Comments: 664
I also want to add
The QB-9 is slated to be Ayre's top dog for about half the cost of their universal player. So to me it’s also about value in this case. Why should the QB-9 have any input that would in any way diminish what Ayre is trying to achieve. I am not trying to be critical of anyone’s needs, but you have to respect what Charlie and Gordon are to do.
I can’t afford the QB-9, so I am between the Wavelength Proton and the Bel Canto USB Link. I am leaning toward the Proton as I feel that adding the spdif from the Link will introduce jitter (10 sets forward and 5 steps backwards).
regards
vortecjr
Sonore player w/Vortexbox engine -> Playback controlled from any browser with Vortexbox web interface -> no mouse, no keyboard, no monitor, no configuration -> Lynx AES16/Firewire into Weiss Minerva -> Rotel and B&W system
Joined: 04/19/2009 .:. Offline .:. Comments: 8
Ayre QB9
Chris I hope you get your review unit soon. Our QB9 came in Friday morning and we installed it with our Ayre KXR preamp and MXR mono amps with Wilson Sophia speakers with Transparent and Ridge Street Audio cabling. Files were served by a Mac mini and controlled by an i touch. Initial impressions were very good especially considering the lack of warm up time and time for settling in. Most audio files were ripped from CD but we had 24/96 files from Linn, Audiophile Jazz profile, and vinyl conversion from a Sumiko USB Phono. We rebooted I tunes when changing sample rates. We had an Ayre C5xemp in the system and felt it was superior on Friday. The system was left on repeat cycle onernite. By Saturday morniing dramatic changes occured. For those who have heard the MP filter update for the C5xemp, you will agree that a significant hurdle in digital sound quality has been conquered. Fleshy and visceral are the best adjectives to describe the improvements. By Saturday the QB9 was "more of everything good" than any other digital device we have ever heard. We had a continuous stream of about 40 friends and customers listening and agreeing that 'it sounded like great analog" or had "3D tube like imaging". We did structured AB testing between USB cables, Itunes 44.1 vs upsampling to 88.2 or 96, again rebooting itunes after each sample rate change, various sample rates for vinyl conversion files from a USB phono, and finally various different digital sources. We discovered that it was best to send a file in it's native sample rate to the QB9 to allow the Ayre to process the signal as opposed to the src of the computer. The expensive Ridge Street Alethias USB cable was judged to be a " no brainer" and indispensible to the pursuit of reference levels of reproduction. Current judgement on the QB9 can be summarized as a breakthrough revelation. We expect it to get better as all Ayre products need an extended break in time frame. Pictures and additional details are available upon request.
I hope everyone that attended enjoyed it as much as we did hosting the event. I urge all to seek an audition whether you are in the market or not. It's just too much fun to ignore!!!!
George
Joined: 03/21/2009 .:. Offline .:. Comments: 2
Informative thread
Firstly, thanks to everyone for the information. This thread/site has been extremely helpful in my research for the source upgrade/replacement.
Just wanted to share my current setup and my need for upgrade (as it relates to QB-9).
A. For Redbook CD music -- Quad 988, conrad-johnson CT6 tube preamp, conrad-johnson MV60 tubeamp, and slowly looking to upgrade Rotel RCD-1072 redbook player (retail $700).
B. For blu-ray/DVD movies -- Sony blu-ray BDP-S550 which has RCA outputs to CT6 preamp. (On a side note, my digital cable line is a source of ground loop, and I have to plug in my HDTV and conrad-johnson MV60 amp in the same wall outlet to keep the humming noise down to an acceptable level. I've already tried coax cable Isolators w/o success).
C. For High-Rez music and On-demand movies from the internet (e.g. Netflix) -- I recently ordered a new Levono laptop (with HDMI output but no Blu-ray) which I plan to use for viewing Netflix movies on my HDTV (hdmi) and audio output to my Quads via headphone jack to CT6 preamp. [I am assuming I can use the USB output to Ayre QB-9 for this]
For my source upgrade, I have the following objectives: sound performance comparable to Ayre CX-7e (I haven't heard this CD player, however, based on the professional reviews that I have read, this is my budget for comparison). Also based on what I have read about Ayre QB-9, I thought it was going to be my one-stop solution for all (except for world peace). Using the optical audio output from the blu-ray player to a DAC would also solve my ground loop problem. Without this input, QB-9 only solves 2 out of 3 requirements.
Would like to hear others view on my situation if I missed anything or if anyone has a different perspective. Thanks.
Joined: 04/18/2009 .:. Offline .:. Comments: 664
some comments...
CA buddy,
A. Not sure if you mean you want to buy more from Rotel. Anyway, I own and really like Rotel for its value and sound. I have the rcc-1050 chager, but i find myself using my Rotel rdv-1092 (now its called rdv-1093) most of the time. Its a great cd player and dvd-audio player in one. Something to consider for around 1300 bucks. Oh yeah it upsamples dvd as well and you get hdmi out.
I have been taking my hi res files and making them dvd-audio with dvd-solo and playing it back on my rdv...wow! and its simple!
B. My audio friend has the Sony BDP-S5000ES (the cream of the crop) and it's analog out is not great. Don't expect much out of the BDP-550 in analog. Pic and hd audio via hdmi should be good. ps sounds like you need a line conditioner and a dedicated power outlet direct from the panel ;) Its the only way to fly!
C. Hi res music on laptop =yes. Movies on laptop to htdv = hit or miss. The hdmi may not work right with larger tvs. If it does let me know. Most laptops have lite weight on board video cards unlike towers where the sky is the limit? Headphone jack to anything = forget it thats junk and an old trick :(
USB output to Ayre QB-9 = bliss! My contact at the audio store has heard it and he is impressed and he is not easy to impress.
D. My audio friend has the Ayre CX-7e along with the Ayre pre and amp. Its incredible! Buy it, but keep in mind the jump from Rotel is big and so are the upgrades. My opiniion, if your going to do this you are going to need the works....better everything (interconnects, power cables, speaker wires, power conditioners). PS the Ayre CX-7e has an upgrade for a few bucks (makes it even better).
The QB-9 is not a DAC its a USB player/source with a DAC. Ayre doesn't make a DAC they incorporate the it into the source. Its the way they do things and a good way to do things.
Just my thoughts....
Regards
vortecjr
Sonore player w/Vortexbox engine -> Playback controlled from any browser with Vortexbox web interface -> no mouse, no keyboard, no monitor, no configuration -> Lynx AES16/Firewire into Weiss Minerva -> Rotel and B&W system
Joined: 03/17/2009 .:. Offline .:. Comments: 45
I was at this demo yesterday
I was at AV South's demo yesterday and can certainly agree. The entire room was nothing short of stunning! It had dynamics and soundstaging to die for :) Imaging was very good although the speakers were a bit far apart for my taste but I understand pulling them out further to try and make them sound good for the whole room. I cannot isolate the exact benefit of the Ayre DAC but I can tell you that there was certainly nothing lacking anywhere in the audio chain. And the bass from the Sophia 2's was beyond subwoofer levels; punched in the chest from anywhere in the room.
I would love to go back to AV South and compare my Weiss DAC2 with the Ayre. I spoke with Dave a bit about this and he seemed quite interested. I think that would be very cool. But anyone thinking about the Ayre DAC from what I heard yesterday it is a no-brainer at its price.
Joined: 04/18/2009 .:. Offline .:. Comments: 664
price did you say price?
what price?...come on spill the beans!
Sonore player w/Vortexbox engine -> Playback controlled from any browser with Vortexbox web interface -> no mouse, no keyboard, no monitor, no configuration -> Lynx AES16/Firewire into Weiss Minerva -> Rotel and B&W system
Joined: 03/17/2009 .:. Offline .:. Comments: 45
I believe it is $2,500 MSRP?
I believe it is $2,500 MSRP?
Joined: 08/28/2008 .:. Offline .:. Comments: 47
QB9 and usb dacs and cables
When will the QB9 available in France?
I would be curious to read from people having compared QB9 and top wavelength dacs?
I wish I could visit your store in Florida...
Regarding USB cable: my recent purchase of a Ridge Street Poiema USB has brought a wonderful improvement to my music despite the fact that my dac is a modest Dacmagic (hence the interest for QB9 or Brick or Proton)
Would it be possible for someone to do a musicality ranking of the popular usb dacs: Chris si doing so few reviews of dacs?
macbook/ridge street usb/dacmagic-/Leben CS300XS/audio exklusiv PS3 www.bluedy.com
Joined: 10/30/2008 .:. Offline .:. Comments: 270
Stik, Gordon has said that
Stik, Gordon has said that you can use a toslink input on your computer from the Blu-Ray player and output through the USB DAC such as the Ayre. If you don't have a toslink input on your laptop you can buy an add-on card that will provide one.
david is hear
Joined: 04/07/2009 .:. Offline .:. Comments: 3
Arye details?
Does the QB-9 have balanced outs? More importantly, does it have a volume control? I've come to love the idea of connecting DACs directly to my amps. I'm doing this now with my ModWright Transporter, and the results are great.
Joined: 04/19/2009 .:. Offline .:. Comments: 8
Ayre QB9
Hi gregeasley,
The QB9 has a truly balance out circuit. No volume controll and only a usb input. A pc/mac may provide additional inputs and the M-audio Fastrack pro can add a 4x4 matrix switcher with analog and spdif to your pc/mac. It is bundled with Ableton Live Lite software which will give you a high quality input gain/ output controll. Not the most convenient solution but perhaps a viable compromise for the performance levels achieved. The M-audio arrives this week and I will post my initial impressions.
George
Joined: 11/28/2007 .:. Offline .:. Comments: 5598
Very cool Gorge, thanks for
Very cool Gorge, thanks for the continued information.
P.S. I talked to Steve S. on Sunday and he speaks highly of you :~)
Chris Connaker
Founder
Computer Audiophile
Joined: 05/08/2009 .:. Offline .:. Comments: 87
I noticed some comments on
I noticed some comments on Wav to AIFF above. Anyone know if FLAC support 24/96? I have used .ape to support lossless compression/playback of 24/96 (I think I have even done 32/96).
RYDENFAN - I'm in Tampa. Are you a member of the TBLS? I plan on getting a Proton soon, and I'd love to hear your Weiss DAC2 sometime! Give me a shout sometime.
hifitubes
MC14 > Lynx AES16 clocked to BLA "Macroclock" > ??? > Decware Mini-Torii > Omega 3i/Deep Hemp
Joined: 11/28/2007 .:. Offline .:. Comments: 5598
FLAC certainly does support
FLAC certainly does support 24/96. I have 24/192 FLAC files as well.
Chris Connaker
Founder
Computer Audiophile
Joined: 11/28/2007 .:. Offline .:. Comments: 5598
If anyone missed my latest
If anyone missed my latest Twitter post, you'll be happy to know the Ayre QB-9 USB DAC should be arriving at Computer Audiophile very soon :~)
Chris Connaker
Founder
Computer Audiophile
Joined: 03/17/2009 .:. Offline .:. Comments: 45
Very cool! I look forward to
Very cool! I look forward to your thoughts Chris.
I also hope to get up to AV South soon to compare my Weiss DAC2 with the Ayre.
Joined: 07/08/2008 .:. Offline .:. Comments: 33
Look forward to it.
I've had a QB-9 in my desktop system for just under a week now and am very impressed with it. It's replacing an Apogee Duet (which, incidentally, I still think is probably the single best value source out there for Mac users) and manages to be a big step up over a very competent predecessor. I've always been a bit of a FireWire fetishist, so this is a step toward the dark side for me! As such, I look forward to hearing your thoughts on the Ayre versus the Weiss, rydenfan.
Anyway, I agree with the gentleman from AV South that the QB-9 has an appealing, natural presentation. Detail retrieval is excellent, but not to the point of making things cool and clinical. Dynamics and bass response, particularly, are in another class from the Duet. I'm primarily a headphone and nearfield monitor listener, but even so it's clear the Ayre projects a much more open sound stage.
As far as operation goes, setup was plug-and-play simple and the QB-9 has worked without a hitch so far with material at sample rates ranging from 44.1kHz to 96kHz. I would certainly second the opinion already expressed that it sounds far better with 44.1kHz files fed at their native rate rather than upsampled in iTunes to 96kHz. This means some futzing with Audio Midi on my Mac when going back and forth from my stock of hi-resolution material, which is a pain but hardly Ayre's fault. Please, please will someone write a native-rate plugin for iTunes? ;)
In a week of intensive use, I have heard no hint of system noise or RF interference. Nor have I been able to force a dropout in the USB connection, despite trying hard to do so. Kudos to Gordon Rankin for all his hard work on the asynchronous USB transfer protocol and I hope that Wavelength and Ayre will be able to add 24/192 support to the TAS1020B code down the line, as they've both suggested in the past.
All in all, I may well still be in the grip of "new owner syndrome", but I do think the QB-9 is a product that could do a lot to put to rest the computer-audio stigma amongst audiophiles. Or at least the more open-minded section of the tribe. I'll be very interested to hear what you think of it, Chris.
With that, back to the music...
Joined: 04/06/2009 .:. Offline .:. Comments: 2
Hi Chris, I know this is
Hi Chris,
I know this is sometimes difficult to do but, when reviewing the QB-9 could you perhaps do some comparative references to some other know dac's like the Berkley Alpha, Wavelength Crimson, and even the Linn Klimax DS if at all possible. I was curious if this might be in the same league?
On a side note, If using a P.C. and say Foobar with Secret Rabbit Code up sampler, how does it sound?
Thanks.
Joined: 05/17/2009 .:. Offline .:. Comments: 81
Thanks for the informative
Thanks for the informative review. I'm anxious to get into computer audio. However, I can probably only afford to do it once so I will probably wait for 192 even though I am missing out for the time being.
It would be nice to know, when the time comes, if there was an upgrade path for Ayre or Wavelength that's less expensive that buying a new unit. Though I realize that big changes can happen it a year in DAC design. Sometimes complete redesign.
From what I gather, the TAS1020B may not work for 24/192 but Gordon mentioned there many other chips that are up to the task. So I would only expect this to get better as time goes on. I
Joined: 12/10/2007 .:. Offline .:. Comments: 385
Gang, Correct the TAS1020B
Gang,
Correct the TAS1020B cannot do anything higher than 24/96. Actually USB Class 1 is limited to 1023 bytes per frame. With 24/96 that requires 576 bytes per frame. If we double that you can see it will not work.
With Class 2 Audio (not to be confused with USB 2.0 but it does require High Speed 480Mhz) we can litterally do 24 channels at 192.
Two problems...
1) Windows and Linux do not support Class 2 Audio.
2) There are actually very few chips optimized for USB and I2S. While we are looking at two of these right now it will be a while before anything becomes of it.
Really though no need to wait. Ayre and Wavelength have a similar upgrade policy. When you make an investment it's really up to us to make sure you are happy long term.
Thanks
Gordon
J. Gordon Rankin
~~~~~~~~~~
Wavelength Audio
http://www.usbdacs.com/
http://www.wavelengthaudio.com/
http://www.guitar-engines.com/
Joined: 07/08/2008 .:. Offline .:. Comments: 33
Thanks for the explanation, Gordon.
Is there any indication that Audio Class 2 will eventually be supported in Windows 7? Not that I care specifically, being in the Mac camp, but obviously that's going to be a key factor in determining if the avenue is worth pursuing for you.
I really like the Ayre DAC and the asynchronous USB implementation has just been rock solid. Thanks for all your hard work making it possible!
Joined: 12/10/2007 .:. Offline .:. Comments: 385
Gang, Yes at sometime Class
Gang,
Yes at sometime Class 2 Audio USB will be supported under Windows.
Thanks
Gordon
J. Gordon Rankin
~~~~~~~~~~
Wavelength Audio
http://www.usbdacs.com/
http://www.wavelengthaudio.com/
http://www.guitar-engines.com/
Joined: 11/28/2007 .:. Offline .:. Comments: 5598
The Ayre QB-9 Asynchronous
The Ayre QB-9 Asynchronous USB DAC Review Sample is in the house!
Chris Connaker
Founder
Computer Audiophile
Joined: 04/18/2009 .:. Offline .:. Comments: 664
dude, I have gear envy!
be a pal and sent to me when your done....hehehe
vortecjr<-------crying here
Sonore player w/Vortexbox engine -> Playback controlled from any browser with Vortexbox web interface -> no mouse, no keyboard, no monitor, no configuration -> Lynx AES16/Firewire into Weiss Minerva -> Rotel and B&W system
Joined: 03/17/2009 .:. Offline .:. Comments: 45
Chris, I cannot wait to hear
Chris, I cannot wait to hear your comments...
Joined: 04/20/2009 .:. Offline .:. Comments: 7
Ayre QB-9
Chris my QB-9 should be delivered Wednesday or Thursday, boy it's been a long wait.
A flaw in reasoning is a mistake in how conclusions are derived from assumptions, not a mistake in assumptions.
AB835
Joined: 07/08/2008 .:. Offline .:. Comments: 33
Enjoy!
And don't forget to mail in your registration within 30 days. This bumps your warranty coverage just slightly, from 90 days to five years. ;)