Amarra Release 1.1 Available NOW

Download the new Amarra here now:

http://www.sonicstudio.com/amarra/inthenews.html#NEWREL11

enjoy,
clay

Amarra 1.1 does not work for me Clay. I did all the ususal stuff like uninstall the Preferences and even the program. Repaired disk permissions. No go!

I had a difficult time getting 3187 to work.

Downloaded it a few hours ago - works well. Sounds better then 1.02 too.

James

I have been listening to it for a few hours and I am sure there are things I am hearing that I didn't hear before, but one doesn't like to draw attention to oneself , with wild claims does one!
Keith.

You guys are lucky! I communicated with Jon, and he may have an answer to my problem soon. Sonic Studio provides great support.

Jon gave me 3189 last night at 5pm his time, just as he finished it.

I could have sworn that it sounded better, but I chalked it up to a sense of ease related to finally being able to listen to all of my music via Amarra.

Kinda like after you wash your car, and it just feels quicker, or smoother, or something... ;)

clay

"Sonic Studio provides great support."

Totally agreed, although it's hard not to wish that less of it was required.

Hopefully, you'll be up and running in no time.

clay

Spent close to an hour talking to Jon as he was remotely logged on to my computer trying to work out some bugs with the latest Mini version that wouldn't work for me after downloading.

It seems there's a problem and extra programming required to get the program to communicate and read files from a Drobo/Droboshare. Something to do with granting permission, etc. Not sure if this is an issue with other NAS devices or not. I went through all of this with Jon months ago, just before the initial Mini was released, and he had it fixed for version 1.0, but not this version.

If anyone else is using a Drobo/Droboshare and having issues, Jon is working on the fix for version 1.1...

I'm using a Firewire OWC external drive that seems to be having trouble. Jon 's solution hopefully will fix my problem as well.

So we have yet another reason to use Firewire for connectivity to the DAC, to wit, so that you can use USB to connect to the external drive. ;)

Just kidding!!!!

If I hadn't needed recording capability, I would never have discovered the Metric Halo, and would be using Gordon's Wavelength gear too.
In fact, I picked up a Proton last night.

My file name issue was apparently due to listening via an external drive as well. As soon as this was determined and relayed to Jon, the problem was fixed.

As I recall, you've never suffered these issues, right?

clay

Jon just accesed my computer and installed 3189 with no problems. I guess I need to attend the Apple learning school.

"I guess I need to attend the Apple learning school."

yes, pal, please, go get some training, Jon has more important stuff to do, like fix the gapless playback issue, and work on the Amarra Ripping solution. ;)

Seriously, glad your listening again, do you hear an improvement?

clay

but seems fragile , cant edit tags on other songs while playing amarra or static sounds are produced. The program has hung a no of times.
I think the sound (1.1) is significantly different, I hear much more detail i think but somehow I find the sound somewhat fatiguing. Interested in the experiences of others.

Enjoy,
thequietman

here's a copy of the Amarra mini experience I've also posted on stereo.net.au

Amarra mini revisited.
I'm currently using Amarra mini 1.1 release 3189. There's been quite a bit of work done since it's release, more to come too. I'm sure. Firstly, I've used it on 2 computers on 3 different systems:
System 1 (well the digital part anyway):
YBA CD400 or CA DV99 universal player, or
Mac mini (with HDD, 4GB RAM, OS X10.6.1, iTunes 9.0.2)
Weiss Minerva DAC connected to Mac with Firewire 400 and CA or YBA with SPDIF
Silk Audio TVC passive
ADAM Tensor Delta

System 2:
Macbook Pro Core Duo with 2GB RAM, HDD, OS X 10.6.1, iTunes 9.0.1
Music Fidelity V-DAC connected via USB
Sugden A21 amp
ADAM HM-2 speakers

System3:
Macbook Pro Core Duo with 2GB RAM, HDD, OS X 10.6.1, iTunes 9.0.1
CA DACMagic2 connected via Toslink
Yamamoto HA-02 valve headphone amp
ATH-W1000 headphones

firstly, the changes in Amarra:
It no longer crashes on my system at all (it used to crash when I changed inputs on my DAC from FW to SPDIF)
It now additionally supports Apple Lossless
Volume switching from iTunes to Amarra is now seamless and automatic (and volume matched) when Amarra is switched on or off or when the iTunes playlist changes from a lossless file to a lossy file.
Sonic Studio have listened to a request that I made, and the Amarra mini player can now be hidden - given that it just duplicates the iTunes play controls and switches on/off automatically, it seemed to me that a separate window was unnecessary - thanks for listening. This is a switchable option in the preferences and controls can be accessed through the Dock icon anyway.
The mini player still supports up to 24/96, if you want (or can find) 24/192 files then you'll have to think about Amarra.
Amarra mini now has a non-dithered volume control so volume changes don't mean a loss of resolution.
It still uses the dreaded iLok Amarra mini tells me from time to time that it can't find an iLok and it then switches to demo mode. I have to pull the iLok out and reinsert it, or sometimes reboot the Mac mini I don't like this.

The Sound:
System 1:
This is the only system I'm using that uses a Sonic Studio tested and approved DAC, and Weiss prefer Firewire as an interface. This is of course an important point to keep in mind! There is a clear improvement in sound quality switching from Amarra mini to iTunes in WAV, AIFF and Apple Lossless encoded files. I could hear no difference between AIFF and Apple Lossless. There is less bass with Amarra, but perhaps an 'absence of accentuated bass' rather than missing bass. What is improved is detail and imaging. cymbals have much less of that dreaded 'smear' that makes digital such a fatiguing experience for me and it's very easy to get involved in the music, unusual for me with digital. In this system, it's a clear improvement, and what's more works seamlessly and has been problem free. Incidentally, whilst I'd never believed in a sonic difference from CD transports, the top loading Philips transport in the YBA sounds much better that the tray loading Cambridge Audio, when both are used as transport only into the DAC via SPDIF!

Now, lug the iLok over to System 2:
this system is in my holiday house. The DAC connects via USB, so does the iLok, so does my iPhone for recharging, my Garmin bike computer, my camera...... You get the picture, the MBP only has 2 USB ports and I have more than 2 devices, but as I use the computer as a music server, I wish that the iLok wasn't permanently required as it blocks all the USB ports (yes I know that I can get a USB hub but this is supposed to be a simple system). Soundwise, I could hear no difference between Amarra mini and iTunes, not a total surprise as this system has much less resolution that the ADAM Deltas and the passive.

Now lug the iLok over to System 3:
I was interested in this one as the DACMagic2 is a common mid quality DAC, and a step up from the V-DAC in my experience. Headphones also give the opportunity for improved resolution too. The source was the same MacBook Pro as used in System 2 (incidentally Sonic Studios recommend 4GB RAM so this may also affect the sound as it only has 2GB). This DAC is also not on the list of DACs that have been tested with Amarra yet, however using Toslink, there is also a clear improvement in sound quality over iTunes, with more resolution and imaging. The difference is less obvious than it is with the Weiss though.

Overall, this can be a clear improvement in digital sound on the right system - the better the resolution ability of the system, the bigger the change will be from my experience. It won't improve every system out of sight - don't believe anyone who tries to tell you that any component can do that, and it still lags behind analog on my system, but it's much closer now. Next step for me is to try a SSD in the Mac mini as this is also supposed to make as much difference again. I'm now pleased with Amarra mini but as you may have guessed, would prefer to ditch the iLok. I can't see any need to go to the full version as there's next to no 24/192 releases that I listen to so I'm not missing out on anything yet.

Hopefully the next step for Amarra will be flac support as there's no native support through iTunes and then i can play my 24/96 HDTracks files through Amarra mini.

First off, I'm not sure that Amarra will work with a 16/44.1 USB DAC - certainly earlier versions didn't work with my MF A1008 DAC but that may have changed now.

Have you tried using the V-DAC via TOSLink (as you do the Cambridge Audio) rather than USB? If you're using TOSLink, then the actual DAC you are using is irrelevant (to Amarra) - only the fact that the interface exists is of concern to Amarra and what happens after the output connector has nothing to do with software on the computer (thats why you can set the output to 24/96 even when using a DAC limited to 16/44.1)

Just a couple of thoughts for you.
Eloise

Hi Eloise
Sonic's FAQ page says that Amarra works with "most USB/Firewire DACs", however in this case there was no difference at all. Unfortunately my optical disc player in System 2 is a 'free' Samsung BluRay player that came with the TV and it only has HDMI or Toslink digital output. The DAC only has one Toslink input but does also have USB, and as it's a holiday house system, it's configured this way for convenience, but I'll try it the other way for my own curiosity and also try USB with the DACMagic2 as well. That aside, the V-DAC can't hold a candle to the DACMagic2 in terms of resolution, and in turn that isn't even on the same planet as the Weiss for resolution or timing - well they are actually on the same planet, but not metaphorically:)

I have a similar system to michael, heard amarra 1.01 with weiss minerva and qb9 and went for the qb9.
I have the full Version of Amarra and ran into a problem because my hard drive was named with an"Ü". Jon found out about the problem and the fix was easy ;-).
First thing he asked me, was to install the latest version which was 1.1. So I had before it was officially released. My initial impression was: WOW! What an improvement. This is the feedback I sent on 27th of October to Sonic:
"My impressions: 1. wow something is happening 2. Significant improvements in Dimensions, rock solid pictures, Room sizes much bigger, the often talked about blacker backgrounds, 3. something is missing – weight! or is it bass, then: no, I can much more easily follow Basslines in complex arrangements, much more control (is this better transient response?). But yes there is something missing. Late last night, I sometimes had a clinical feeling. Not with voices, there i heard the slightes trembling in tone (dont know if this is the correct term in English). I missed some wood on violins, that last slam on a kick, that last little bit, that makes a piano to concert grand piano. So I tried the EQ. I am impressed. I have the impression that the overall picture loses a bit in size, separation and rooms, hall and ambiences are not as prominent. I used parametric with 250 something hz. Q 0,5 and raised by 0.5. Slam and weight better. More emotionally involving. A classic trick, I know. But it seems, that with the older version, sound was much more prominent in this region.
Equipment: Macbook Pro 4GB, internal hd, all soundfiles aiff ripped with RIP, Transparent Cable USB Cable, Ayre QB9, HMS Sestetto XLR to ADAM Audio active Pencil MK2, Power Cables: Lessloss Signature, all files played with dithered volume
If you now tell me, that sound with 1.1 and 1.01 should be the same. I just might have to visit a doctor. ;-)
I will play it tomorrow to my brother. He is a sound engineer and has very good memory in sound.
My wishlist. A bit more weight and bassextension and I would rate the overall improvement to about 15% overall. For this much sounddifference in cables I know a bunch of people to pay a couple of thousands Euros!!!"
Nevertheless I returned to 1.01.
Reason Nr. 1: First impression was: wow more information. 2nd: yes I heard some things I havent heard before, but missed things I heard in the past. Example: Anna Netrebko Souvenirs - I heard her breathing (at least I thought I rembered there was something)
Nr. 2: Singers stand between speakers not in front - I somehow missed something when listening to voices. It is that reach out and touch quality I thought I had before.
Nr. 3: Weight - I already commented on that - where has all the wood gone? I heard strings but not violins. I heard strings but no guitars.
Nr. 4: 10m depth of soundstage - no kidding, I had to close my eyes an yes an orchestra was sitting a long way on the opposite side of room. Nice, but so far away, that I had problems following, what they are doing. In some respect this sounded more live (ever tried to follow a single instrument of an orchestra in a concert hall?), but then again, this isnt the real thing. I heard room in abundance, but the room was somewhere else, not in my livingroom.
Nr. 5 Emotional quality - I listened to all those records, that used to give me goosebumps. But nothing happened. After a couple of days I was getting very unhappy. Something was wrong.
So I uninstalled Amarra, and reinstalled 1.01. What a treat! There it was again: Emotional quality, A choir in the background now was a choir consisting of people with mouth and chest and not only distant voices, Weight, there it was again. Voices standing right in front of me - close your eyes, reach out and touch them, Oh Anna is breathing again! The coloration of instruments is right.
I am not going back to 1.1. Of course I will try the next release, but at least in my surrounding, 1.01 clearly sounds superior. My brother was over here tonight and I installed 1.1 and played some music to him. After about half an hour he said: "Last time I went home, I was thinking: Damn, my system doesnt sound nearly as good, as yours. Probably too much redwine or did you change anything." I told him about software change. "Yes of course, a release will do that."
So i just uninstalled 1.1 and reinstalled 1.01. For his sound engeneering ears: Difference is night and day.
Of course not that much, but if I had heard amarra with this sound before I bought it, I would have said: "It does sound clearly superior to I tunes but (see above).
Anyone else has same impressions?
Claudius

Claudius, very interesting. Thank you for sharing your detailed impressions. I will have to go back and do some more listening myself.

Gary

I haven't heard any sonic degradation from upgrading. I can't say I heard an improvement either, but I haven't listened for a difference if that makes any difference. ; )

Claudius, now that you mention it, I think that the sound of 1.1 has changed. I hadn't listened very carefully before but it seems to sound more like iTunes now:(

There have been reports of a 'different' sound coming from version 1.1, including yours truly.

I actually noticed it a couple of releases prior to 3189 I think, but can't remember exactly. I did not attempt the detailed analysis you've performed - for reasons mentioned below - although I can say that when I listened to another player yesterday for a change of pace that the sound seemed more resonant and natural than what my ears had become accustomed to (i.e. recent release of Amarra). This would seem to be directionally consistent with your observations, and presumably might also have happened had I listened to an earlier release of Amarra.

Not sure if it's my system, my hearing, or both, but I rarely report my thoughts on differences among players as I just don't seem to hear differences significant enough that they can/should be presented as meaningful - this despite the fact that I hear significant differences between power cables, interconnects, system components, in the same basic setup.

Interesting post,
clay

Perhaps a bit more mid bass?

@ michael, I know the tensors very well, heard them in different set ups and am planning to get the gamma. They are very revealing, just like all the other ADAM Speakers. Please try version 1.01. Dont listen for differences, just listen and watch for emotional impact. I am sure, you will feel different about the sound of 1.01. I find 1.01 significantly more musically satisfying.

Because of your replies I am gaining confidence in my ears:
@all mac mini users: which usb ports do you use? I know it has been commented on different sounding usb ports and I could reproduce this with my macbook pro - the improvement was there but not much. But with the mini, the difference in sound is very apparent. Interesting is, that I picked up a port by ears. When looking at the hardware tap in OS I found out, that I picked up a port with bluetooth on it,? - advice on this side says, to find a free port.
So my advice to all mini users. Try different usb ports! Depending on how revealing your system is and of course on your ears, you might find them different sounding and one of them might just sound significant better than others. I am very interested in your findings.

What I called weight, is not only midbass! Raising the midbass does not necessarily change the size of an instrument. This can easily be reproduced by using the Amarra EQ. Resonant and natural are very good adjectives to describe the differences.
@michael: funny you compare the sound to itunes. With 1.1 I actually tried something I would have never thought of to try after living with Amarra 1.01 for some weeks: I turned Amarra off and listened to I Tunes. But not for long ;-). 1.1 is definitely better than I Tunes. But the change I get by turning off Amarra 1.01 is dramatic. At least for my ears in my system. And I know some audiophiles who say that I tend to exaggerate. ;-)

Greetings from Germany
Claude
I will contact Sonic Studio and ask for feedback to "our" findings.
When talking to Jon he asked me to listen and tell him what I hear, so I guess they hear changes to. Would be interesting, if they think the sound to have changed to the better.

Claude,

You are not alone. I did a fresh install yesterday having upgraded last week and been unhappy with the sound when I came to try it. My initial joy at being able to play Apple Lossless files was short lived as I came to hear some subtle foibles that were not there before. They cease to be subtle once you have keyed into them, of course. The lower noise floor seemed to come at the price of some vagueness (particularly in the bass) and congestion. The reinstall improved things but I'm still left with a sound that, frankly, is not as good as iTunes. It's sounding a little sweeter but ultimately losing a touch of clarity and realism, still not right.

This was not the case with the demo version I had, but as my collection is Apple Lossless I'm loathe to download that version and convert to AIFF. The gap-less playback issue and now this are causing me considerable vexation. It's a good job it sounds so good through iTunes, or I would be unhappy with the whole thing.

Steve

I listened to some orchestral works and although I could listen deep into the recording venue I could not really pin down instruments. Not so with 1.01.
I am quite sure, that Sonic will dive into this matter. So hold on.
Claude

I'd agree - after the initial listen which sounded quite impressive, i didn't find myself listening into the small hours as usual. It didnt grab me musically like the previous version and i thought about going back to 1.02. Before i did this i downloaded the latest update to iTunes 9 and all was better again so this configuration is now fixed unless something significant comes up. With Amarra version from 3145 on, i've not always found an improvement with each change (3162 being a least favourite).

James

Hi
As my primary use of my macbook is for listening to music through amarra and then weiss Minerva I had done many tests to understand the sound of the different versions
Definitely the latest isn’t as good as the previous in matters of air around the instruments and the width of the soundstage .it is also a bit harder and as I read previously posted more like itunes sound and not amarra
What I’m laughing about is that sonic has entered a world of paranoia ( high-end ) and will have troubles with this move
I think the most satisfying for me is the 101 something version of the amarra mini which was the one that I auditioned before purchasing the amarra
Does anyone know which is the best way to convert flacs and apes to aiff for being playable with amarra ? because I have done many conversions and some files play through amarra and some don’t

I think 1.1 is a little fuller in the mid bass giving it a warmer less focused sound than the earlier versions. This can be a plus or minus depending on your system.

@Claude thank you for pointing this out. I just did some listening to both hi-rez and 16/44 tracks then uninstalled version 1.1 and installed 1.0.2 (build 3177) and I agree, version 1.1 has more mid-bass and sounds less natural (engaging) compared to the previous version.

Claude, can you tell me what build number is the 1.0.1 you have reverted back to? On the Sonic Studio site, there are several options under the Older Installers and some are not labeled correctly. I run the full version of Amarra and I tried downloading Amarra 1.0.2 Installer (build 3186) but the download gives 3177.

Thanks!
Gary

Amarra still sounds very good; better than anything else I've heard in terms of the soundstage. I guess I'll try the older version. I don't want to get obsesive about this, but it appears I already have.

I am not at home so I can only check which installers I have, but not which one I installed.
1.01-3162-106
1.02-3177-1
1.1-3186 (this was a pre release)
1.1-3189-1
Good question, I rember, that I thought that 1.01 and 1.02 sounded different, but never really compared. I think I will check whether I hear any differences.
Claude

I guess it is amarra strategy neither to acknowledge nor deny these changing sound across the versions. I doubt that they do critical listening tests at least not as frequently as with the release of each build.

"I doubt that they do critical listening tests at least not as frequently as with the release of each build."

I can't speak to their overall philosophy, but I can confirm that version 3189 (which we know as version 1.1) was released very quickly after a critical bug fix was implemented and tested.

clay

What was the kind of "critical bug" culminating into the release of 3189. Did it cause subtle shifts in SQ or was it something more pathological like certain ALAC files not playing or crashing with certain kind of characters in the song file names...

It brought with it the added bonus of Apple Lossless support and some EQ additions, but those were 1.1 planned features anyway.

As Ted says, the critical bug was related to the the long file name issue - the changes specifically in version 3189 were very minor and related only to some peculiarity in my instance of long file name 'bug'.

Jon found a fix for it, sent it to me, we tested it, and version 1.1 was released shortly thereafter.

Alac support had been provided several versions (i.e. 3180-something) prior to this particular version.
cheers,
clay

I'm still using iTunes in preference. :-(

That wasn't the case with the earlier versions but I can't be bothered to convert to AIFF just to go back a release or two.

Steve

Anyone else got a reply or heard something about this "issue"

and several fixes. Apple Lossless? Long file names? They are fixed/available in 1.1. The sonic differences? Amarra says they try and better each version, so yes, I believe the latest (3189) sounds better, fuller, more "there" there, more musical in my system. I don't find the midbass bloated, and I have a very dynamic full range speaker system (SP Tech Revelations). YMMV, cuz any change in sound could very well throw off system synergy...... or add to it. !!

I agree with Ted that I don't find the mid bass bloated. Just a bit more prominent.

"Issue" because for some it might not be an issue.
Some people (at least on this forum) found that sound changed with 1.1 to the worse. I wrote in an earlier post, that i will contact Sonic. I did so, shared my impressions and pointed to this thread on CA.
You are right, 1.1 is better in many ways, but not in sound. At least not in my system.

One man's "better, fuller" = another man's coloured and less detailed. I too have a dynamic full range speaker system and like the others who have commented, much prefer the earlier version.

If it's staying this way - I'll leave it on iTunes output which is sounding better. That was not the case with the demo version I had.

Steve

http://www.audioasylum.com/forums/pcaudio/messages/6/65024.html

Interesting post by someone (a newcomer?) on AA - PC Audio.

He posts freq response of Amarra versus iTunes. Amarra has significant lumpiness in the bass.

I've asked what version of Amarra he was using when he ran the tests.

Cheers
Clay

definitely not midbass....might be tough to "hear" that; more like feel it.

understood.

I was interested in the obvious ripples, and wondering if this FR curve was for the 'best case', i.e., perhaps a test of another version would show ripples further up in frequency.

just a thought,
clay

EDIT, Ramallo posted a response.

"Hi Clay,

Yes, is the lastest 1.1 (3189)

Is a demo version, I tried too the full version (The first release) and IMHO I have the feeling that the changes in sound are more apparent with the last version.

Cheers"

Has anybody done a bit accuracy test for amarra. Basically if the volume is full scale and eq is off, is the output on the USB/Firewire same as the wave file being played. One simple way of getting some confidence about the bit accuracy is by playing a HDCD encoded file and using a HDCD capable DAC. If the HDCD indicator lits up on the DAC, there is reasonable confidence that amarra does not modify bits.

If anybody has any pointers/links about this, then please point it out.

Sanjay

Chris has done this, particularly at his symposium where apparently many heard improvements from Amarra.

It was this instance in particular that led me to start believing that the difference in sound induced by Amarra were not achieved at the expense of bit-perfect-ness.

Perhaps check out the Symposium threads.

clay

Clay,

Take a favourite CD and compare the latest version of Amarra playing an ALAC file with version 3177 playing AIFF. Be interested in your findings.

Steve

Steve,
thanks for the suggestion,

Do you have the link? I'm not sure I saved the download package for 3177.

clay

http://www.sonicstudio.com/amarra/support.html

it says 3186 but downlads 3177.

Look down the page for old installers Clay.

I am using 3177 now.